tunalegs
Pretended Artist
.. and a toaster does not toast bread! (technically though I think it is the bullet that does the killing, not the finger).
Actually without the qualification of you being attacked by them, it is called murder.
Are 10,000+ U.S. citizens a year killed by fertilizer?
Skyrocketed to what? They have what? 60 gun deaths a year maybe, vs. our tens of thousands?
colyn
ישו משיח
For home defense I use the Judge...
This hand gun will chamber either a 45 long colt or .410 shotshell. I keep it loaded with .410's...
E__WOK
Well-known
E__WOK
Well-known
Don't forget to ban high speed, high capacity carrying, aircraft carrying thousands of pounds of highly flammable toxic fuel.
Jubb Jubb
Well-known
This is one of the biggest problems with America's thinking, and probably why nothing will change. People think it is okay to carry a weapon for protection. You realise that by carrying a weapon you are endangering the lives of others?
As for this being posted in the wrong spot, I wasn't sure quite where to place it, so apologies if it isn't in the correct area.
gb hill
Mentor
but it took a SEAL to pull the trigger
E__WOK
Well-known
Versus your life being at the mercy of the crazy middle aged white gun with a gun?
Explain to me how carrying a gun endangers other lives?
colyn
ישו משיח
It's obvious you are here to argue so I won't bother responding..
In fact this is my last post on this thread. So duke it out with someone else..I'm going back to my cameras.....
Jubb Jubb
Well-known
What if they didn't have the gun in the first place? this is my point. Take the guns out of the equation.
A gun endangers lives. At any point you could take it out only for it to be taken off you and used against you. Then it is a danger.
Luckily I live in a country where guns are near impossible to find/get/use.
That is true safety.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
More people probably died in car crashes on Friday night than died in the shooting. So why aren't people calling that a tragedy and talking about banning cars? They represent 10 plus 9/11s a year. Terror and carnage, oh my!
I have a picture I could post from the Jewish Gun Owners, but I don't have my fireproof boxers with me this trip.
I have a picture I could post from the Jewish Gun Owners, but I don't have my fireproof boxers with me this trip.
gb hill
Mentor
Don't you realize that if you criminalize guns only criminals will have guns. Prohibition of alcohol only lined the pockets of criminals. Idiots don't care if the gun they have is legal or not.:bang:
Frontman
Well-known
In regards to the right to keep and bear arms in America, keep in mind that in America all citizens are supposed to be equal. The military, police, etc. are not supposed to have rights over and above any other citizen, the second amendment is as much about defense against government tyranny as it is about self defense. It may sound unenecessary or irrelevant, but then again, it may not be.
I don't suppose anyone here was present at the riots in Los Angeles back in 1992. I was, and I remember mobs of looters robbing, burning, and killing with impunity. 911 did not work, callers received a busy signal, and even in the few places where the police were present, they stood down, or, worse, simply ran away. If the police won't defend you or your property, who will?
1100 buildings were burned in my city, many were killed, hundreds were injured, and no help was to be found. A few managed to help themselves, a few store owners armed with guns prevented their businesses from being looted or burned. The store where I worked was not so lucky, a car was driven through the doors, everything of value was stolen, and then the building was burned to the ground.
I am talking about Los Angeles, California, the largest city in the wealthiest state and wealthiest country in the world. If even in such a place the authorities we place our trustin can't help us, then we should at least be allowed the means to help ourselves.
It's amazing how people don't see things in perspective. The shootings were tragic, and 26 people won't be here to celebrate the holidays with their families. But on the other hand, violent crimes in America have been decreasing for more than 40 years. Statistically speaking, the UK and Australia have higher rates of vilolence than America, despite their bans on all weapons.
In 2013 more than 40,000 people will die in car accidents. These deaths are no less tragic than any others, yet there will be no increased regulation of licenses, or improvements in driver education. The AARP will continue it's fight against more frequent tests for older drivers, just as the NRA fights against more regulation of guns.
In America I am a gun owner, and I have a permit to carry a weapon or firearm. I went through the fingerprints, background checks, paid the fees, took the classes, band eventually received the permit. I have never pointed a gun at anyone. I was once attacked by two men trying to break into a storage facility. I raised my shirt, the saw the gun, and immediately fled. In America guns are used in self defense on a daily basis, but are rarely actually fired.
Americans live in a "free society", but in such a society, freedoms are often abused. It is to be expected. But I prefer such a society, and would not like it to change.
I don't suppose anyone here was present at the riots in Los Angeles back in 1992. I was, and I remember mobs of looters robbing, burning, and killing with impunity. 911 did not work, callers received a busy signal, and even in the few places where the police were present, they stood down, or, worse, simply ran away. If the police won't defend you or your property, who will?
1100 buildings were burned in my city, many were killed, hundreds were injured, and no help was to be found. A few managed to help themselves, a few store owners armed with guns prevented their businesses from being looted or burned. The store where I worked was not so lucky, a car was driven through the doors, everything of value was stolen, and then the building was burned to the ground.
I am talking about Los Angeles, California, the largest city in the wealthiest state and wealthiest country in the world. If even in such a place the authorities we place our trustin can't help us, then we should at least be allowed the means to help ourselves.
It's amazing how people don't see things in perspective. The shootings were tragic, and 26 people won't be here to celebrate the holidays with their families. But on the other hand, violent crimes in America have been decreasing for more than 40 years. Statistically speaking, the UK and Australia have higher rates of vilolence than America, despite their bans on all weapons.
In 2013 more than 40,000 people will die in car accidents. These deaths are no less tragic than any others, yet there will be no increased regulation of licenses, or improvements in driver education. The AARP will continue it's fight against more frequent tests for older drivers, just as the NRA fights against more regulation of guns.
In America I am a gun owner, and I have a permit to carry a weapon or firearm. I went through the fingerprints, background checks, paid the fees, took the classes, band eventually received the permit. I have never pointed a gun at anyone. I was once attacked by two men trying to break into a storage facility. I raised my shirt, the saw the gun, and immediately fled. In America guns are used in self defense on a daily basis, but are rarely actually fired.
Americans live in a "free society", but in such a society, freedoms are often abused. It is to be expected. But I prefer such a society, and would not like it to change.
gb hill
Mentor
If you don't live here in America then you have no say & don't understand our culture of gun ownership.
paulfish4570
Mentor
amen, frontman.
oh yeah, i shoot cameras AND firearms ...
oh yeah, i shoot cameras AND firearms ...
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
That's strange because I was justifying owning guns using the logic that people own cars and both can be used to kill. Your reply seems to indicate that somehow you came to think that I wrote something entirely opposite of what I did write. Astonishing!
You seem to have mistaken my idea that gun owners should be at least a tad responsible, and tad respectful of other people's property and lives, as saying that guns and hunting are inherently evil. Very funny.
I have also stayed out of this til now on the basis it's likely a hiding to nothing, but I don't quite follow the above.
Look, full disclosure: I don't own a gun. I never have. I don't actually like them that much. But I do accept that there are legitimate reasons for people needing to own one.
However: not being wise in the way of weapons: how is a semi automatic rifle more accurate, than, say, a bolt action?
You say:
"Using a semi auto rifle with a 30 round mag will allow me to get quick and accurate rounds out to stop the threat."
Then you say:
"One round is not always enough to stop a threat."
Is this because, there are multiple threats? If a round fired is accurate, why, otherwise, would there be a need to fire more than one? Unless you're not shooting to kill?
I'm not necessarily challenging your comments, however I do profess to not really understanding how your statements sit with each other.
Generally: unless I've missed it, I have yet to see discussed the role the gun industry in America plays in influencing the types and volumes of firearms that are available in the USA. On the one hand I should think that they have a market, and are catering to it. On the other, to what extent, if any, do they drive the availability of the various types of weapons and the manner in which they are marketed?
I'm basing these queries on the reasonably logical assumption (I hope) that they are a part of the problem (and I hope noone woud deny that the USA does have a problem in relation to the use of firearms).
Regards
Brett
Footnote, catching up on recent posts as I've typed this one the thread seems to be heading downhill...maybe this may get it back on track. Or not. I've appreciated the respectful conversation on a contentious and emotive issue until now, so it would be disappointing to see it deteriorate to the point it's closed, as inevitable as that might appear.
Cheers,
Brett
JSU
-
Roger--
In the USA, black powder is classified as an explosive, smokeless powder is classified as a propellant.
People react to the term explosive differently than to the term propellant. Then there are fertilizers such as potassium nitrate. . . .
In the USA, black powder is classified as an explosive, smokeless powder is classified as a propellant.
People react to the term explosive differently than to the term propellant. Then there are fertilizers such as potassium nitrate. . . .
Jubb Jubb
Well-known
Cars are designed to get from a to b, guns are designed to kill. There is no comparison between the two.
I never said I lived in the states, I am expressing my opinion as many of you have too.
It's a good debate, but I still can't see why one needs a weapon.
I never said I lived in the states, I am expressing my opinion as many of you have too.
It's a good debate, but I still can't see why one needs a weapon.
gb hill
Mentor
We live in one world. The recent events have certainly impacted way beyond the USAs borders. Are citizens of other countries now not entitled to grieve, mourn, and to question, how these things have come to pass? Or should we lack empathy and care less about the loss of these innocent lives? What a sad world that would be to live in. I do hope we're not quite there, yet.
Regards
Brett
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