kmallick
Well-known
Sorry if it has been posted before. Thorsten has a new article on the M9M (not the preview or anticipatory article). Its an interesting read as always.
http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M-Mon...inder-Camera-black-and-white-sensor-page.html
http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M-Mon...inder-Camera-black-and-white-sensor-page.html
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
His discussion of resolution is -- let me choose the descriptor with some care -- asinine.
Shade
Well-known
Its interesting yes, but I still dont like the concept of having just B/W in such an expensive camera. Sure leica isnt about cheap prices, but all that resolution thingy is a bunch of overrated "gimmick". Now dont flame me pn my comment as I find a 6mp camera is good enough and I never print anything larger than HALF of a standard door size..
If the price were cheaper than the M9P then I would be interested. But as always, it will sell..
If the price were cheaper than the M9P then I would be interested. But as always, it will sell..
segedi
RFicianado
I can't get past all the typos in the article. Hard to take poorly written material too seriously.
Mudman
Well-known
Is he a native English speaker? Might be willing to give him a pass if he's not.
paulfish4570
Mentor
those are very good lenses he was using. but i surely do not see how the m9m revolutionizes BW photography.
BobYIL
Well-known
Why he declares something unscientific and why Leica AG keeps quiet about it? The schematics he put there are totally nonsense.. A sensor's resolution power can not be increased more than 25-30% by "stripping off" the CFA.. (Remarkable..)
"The clarity of detail and the reason the 18 megapixel Leica M Monochrom sensor behaves like a 32 or 37 megapixel sensor is shown in the above."
"The clarity of detail and the reason the 18 megapixel Leica M Monochrom sensor behaves like a 32 or 37 megapixel sensor is shown in the above."
dave lackey
Mentor
Such negative remarks about a photographer that is admirably at an upper level of the profession, and no he is not a native English speaker for whatever the hell that means....tsk, tsk.
Revolutionize black and white photography? Depends on one's point of view, definition and context.
Don't like the Leica M9 Monochrome? Don't buy it.
Don't like the new expensive lens? Don't buy it.
Can't afford it? Don't sweat it.
Others can afford it? So what?
Why spend so much time about being negative when life has so many positive things we can discuss?:angel:
Revolutionize black and white photography? Depends on one's point of view, definition and context.
Don't like the Leica M9 Monochrome? Don't buy it.
Don't like the new expensive lens? Don't buy it.
Can't afford it? Don't sweat it.
Others can afford it? So what?
Why spend so much time about being negative when life has so many positive things we can discuss?:angel:
gho
Well-known
What I find a bit odd is, that it seems to be marketed as the killer of black and white film photography just because it is a monochrome sensor. Personally I find the "Anmutung", as we say in German - of the M9M's shots compared to black and white film, not to speak of the process, qualitativley quite different.
As if all black and white film photographers would now jump in to buy an M9M. Sure, the resolution is outstanding, but especially the highlight areas are something I personally do not like at all. Quite the same reason, why I do not like the X100, but these are of course all matters of personal taste.
As if all black and white film photographers would now jump in to buy an M9M. Sure, the resolution is outstanding, but especially the highlight areas are something I personally do not like at all. Quite the same reason, why I do not like the X100, but these are of course all matters of personal taste.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Interesting - I've used the camera, seen and processed the files, and decided that it does revolutionize digital B&W. I have just been trying it tonight. If I try processing the files of the M9 into something resembling the results of the MM, they simply fall to pieces. The secret is that due to the lack of aberrations introduced by the Bayer filter and the artefacts and fuzziness created by the interpolation, a pixel on the sensor is a pixel in print. As simple as that.
The whole resolution argument is, I agree, just juggling numbers. But what Thorsten is trying to say is that to obtain the tonal transitions, clarity and acuity produced by the MM you probably need a Bayer sensor in the 30 Mp range. And even then a monochrome sensor will possibly still be in the advantage.
The amount of detail cannot, of course, be anything more than 18 Mp. The loss in frequency of a Bayer camera will, probably, be in the order of 30%. But that is not really relevant.
Comparing to film is imho, a bit silly. This is taking monochrome photography in a different direction. Better or worse than film? I could not say. It appeals to me more. It certainly takes it to a different level.
The whole resolution argument is, I agree, just juggling numbers. But what Thorsten is trying to say is that to obtain the tonal transitions, clarity and acuity produced by the MM you probably need a Bayer sensor in the 30 Mp range. And even then a monochrome sensor will possibly still be in the advantage.
The amount of detail cannot, of course, be anything more than 18 Mp. The loss in frequency of a Bayer camera will, probably, be in the order of 30%. But that is not really relevant.
Comparing to film is imho, a bit silly. This is taking monochrome photography in a different direction. Better or worse than film? I could not say. It appeals to me more. It certainly takes it to a different level.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Such negative remarks about a photographer that is admirably at an upper level of the profession, and no he is not a native English speaker for whatever the hell that means....tsk, tsk.
What I object to is the parroting of the BS Leica line that the 18 Mpix M9M has resolution equivalent to a 36 Mpix camera.
No, it does not. If he said that Beyer masks degrade resolution, and here is an 18 megapixel camera that actually approaches the resolution limit of an 18 megapixel sensor, that would be great. But that is not what he wrote.
What he did write is regurgitated, unadulterated Leica marketing poppycock and any serious worker should be ashamed to echo it.
If he is "at an upper level of the profession" that makes it worse, not better.
BobYIL
Well-known
Mr. Overgaard's profession can not be a subject to criticize as he is a well known professional since years.
However, if photography was the branch he mastered, then he should be careful about stepping into quantum physics, semiconductor especially sensor design to comment scientifically. This is internet, not a coffee table chat; thousands and thousands are noting whatever comes out of our keyboards.
However, if photography was the branch he mastered, then he should be careful about stepping into quantum physics, semiconductor especially sensor design to comment scientifically. This is internet, not a coffee table chat; thousands and thousands are noting whatever comes out of our keyboards.
dave lackey
Mentor
Mr. Overgaard's profession can not be a subject to criticize as he is a well known professional since years.
However, if photography was the branch he mastered, then he should be careful about stepping into quantum physics, semiconductor especially sensor design to comment scientifically. This is internet, not a coffee table chat; thousands and thousands are noting whatever comes out of our keyboards.[/quote]
And everyone on this forum should be careful about stepping into the realm of social bashing. One can disagree with anyone on this planet, but the way it is done, either respectfully or not, makes all the difference in the world IMO.
And, Jaap, thank you!
Shade
Well-known
I think he can say whatever he likes, its his website anyway.. But I guess he should be more careful on the technical side as he may have misstepped some boundaries of his knowledge regarding it..
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
BobYIL
Well-known
And everyone on this forum should be careful about stepping into the realm of social bashing. One can disagree with anyone on this planet, but the way it is done, either respectfully or not, makes all the difference in the world IMO.
And, Jaap, thank you!
Persons claiming to be authority in any branch should pay utmost attention for their statements to affect/influence masses as they generally are regarded as being reference sources. No such authority has any right to "overstate" what Leica has stated or refrained to state. This is no social bashing; rather trying to shed a light on a false claim, wrong information, something not to be overlooked.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
sig
Well-known
It may be a revolution, but with current pricing and production numbers a very small one. if you want to be one of the lucky special ones invited to test new cameras for leica, it does not hurt to stick to the party line.
RichW
Established
Some of the replies in this thread reminded me of this
hausen
Well-known
I really like his style of writing and he has helped me get more out using my M9. Giving him stick for a couple of typos or because he expresses an opinion seems a little lame. I agree with Dave if you disagree with him don't read his blog. Personally if I could get it past my wife I would get a Monochrom in a second. Whether it is better than Colour conversions or film would be up to the boffins but I love B&W and a camera designed for that purpose would be awesome. Would it be a good investment or worth the money, I wouldn't care. RF digital isn't cheap and seems to me if you count the pennies then it probably isn't for you.