Archiver
Mentor
Wasn't the Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.4 designed to mimic the pre-asph Summilux?
yossi
Well-known
Yes, but Cosina did not call it a 35mm Summilux steel rim replica like the LLL did. I agree there is double-standard to the PRC products.
They can and should design a truly state-of-the -art lens and proudly engrave everything in Chinese words, public its MTF curves against the very best from Zeiss or Leica and price it slightly above Cosina's product. Think "ОриоH-15". Then I will salute them.
Not a "Thypoh".. Oh com'on!
Archiver
Mentor
As an aside, knowing that the Nokton was intended as a pre-asph Summilux reboot lessens any desire for the original Leica lens. I've taken thousands of images with the Nokton, and as long as my expectations were appropriate, I've always been happy. By this, I mean knowing that there will be coma and glow wide open and has soap bubble bokeh, whereas the chill-inducing Distagon 35 is sparklingly clear wide open.
The Thypoch (Thy Epoch, really??) are marketed as a classic lens for daily reportage and documentation, which is not a bad idea. Admittedly, their marketing appeals to me, so they are doing something right. They are in the hands of a few on IG and I'm looking forward to seeing how they perform. The Voigtlander f1.5 lenses interest me more, though, especially the 28mm f1.5.
David Murphy
Mentor
This is an exciting development and I welcome it. I will be ordering the 28mm. These lenses look beautiful and I plan to buy one. My hats are off to the Chinese for their creativeness and innovation (no China bashing from me).
TenEleven
Well-known
Marketing lingo aside, there's MTF graphs at the bottom. And to me they are believable.
The 35/1.4 seems like it might have extremely subtle wavy distortion, some very minor curvature of field that goes away completely by 5.6 and very even sharpness across the entire frame by 5.6. So performance wise this seems to be on par with any other modern aspherical lens. I do like the automatic depth of field indicator, it's design seems creative, I wonder how well it would work in real world use.
The 28/1.4 MTF has a similar signature to the 35/1.4 but as expected for such a fast wide lens it does not improve as rapidly as the 35/1.4 when stopped down and the corners still lose a bit of definition by 5.6. Field curvature is however well controlled but some minor waviness remains. Distortion is harder to read for me in this graph, if I had to take a guess I would say it's also almost distortion free with a minor dip toward the outer extremes of the frame.
EDIT: From the meridional/sagittal lines it looks like the 35/1.4 has very smooth out of focus rendering, the 28 not as much but still not bad. No surprises there, really
Also I for one am glad these lenses exist and that the Chinese are making them. No one is forcing you to buy these things.
Imagine people griping like this in 1950 whenever a new Japanese lens maker entered the fray with some offerings. You'd have nothing to collect today! Sheesh.
The 35/1.4 seems like it might have extremely subtle wavy distortion, some very minor curvature of field that goes away completely by 5.6 and very even sharpness across the entire frame by 5.6. So performance wise this seems to be on par with any other modern aspherical lens. I do like the automatic depth of field indicator, it's design seems creative, I wonder how well it would work in real world use.
The 28/1.4 MTF has a similar signature to the 35/1.4 but as expected for such a fast wide lens it does not improve as rapidly as the 35/1.4 when stopped down and the corners still lose a bit of definition by 5.6. Field curvature is however well controlled but some minor waviness remains. Distortion is harder to read for me in this graph, if I had to take a guess I would say it's also almost distortion free with a minor dip toward the outer extremes of the frame.
EDIT: From the meridional/sagittal lines it looks like the 35/1.4 has very smooth out of focus rendering, the 28 not as much but still not bad. No surprises there, really
Also I for one am glad these lenses exist and that the Chinese are making them. No one is forcing you to buy these things.
Imagine people griping like this in 1950 whenever a new Japanese lens maker entered the fray with some offerings. You'd have nothing to collect today! Sheesh.
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jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
That's a good moment to hunt for a cheap Nokton 35/1.4... probably.
TenEleven
Well-known
The aforementioned Cosina lens has quite a significant amount of barrel (positive sign) distortion, it is in fact quite infamous for it. Neither the Steel Rim nor the LLL lenses that I am familiar with do have any amount of distortion worth mentioning.
Perhaps I am biased (full disclosure: I was one of the first supporters/buyers for their v1 replica which I still have - great lens!) ...but LLL puts out fantastic lenses that are worth every penny. I recently got their collapsible v1 Summicron copy in black and the construction is up there with the best of what the greats put out in the 50ies, optically it is fantastic and looks amazing on my black Canon rangefinders for a fraction of the cost such a lens would set me back if it had the name of a "reputable" maker on it.
I especially like that it's in LTM which means I can use it on a vast amount of different cameras.
It's basically them and Cosina only serving that need to my knowledge.
justins7
Well-known
One thing that does interest me about the 35 Tryptych (or whatever it's called) is the grip along with the tab on the focusing ring. I have the V. Nokton 35 1.4 and don't like the tab-only focusing experience.
I know I am probably an outlier on this, and I'm aware that the lens is based on the Summilux and Summicrons, which were like that. I find that there are times my hand hunts around for the smooth tab, especially if the camera is lowered below eye-level. I prefer to have both tab and grippage.
Also, the Nokton is pretty soft wide open and there is some distortion, as others have mentioned. So it would be nice to find a replacement.
I know I am probably an outlier on this, and I'm aware that the lens is based on the Summilux and Summicrons, which were like that. I find that there are times my hand hunts around for the smooth tab, especially if the camera is lowered below eye-level. I prefer to have both tab and grippage.
Also, the Nokton is pretty soft wide open and there is some distortion, as others have mentioned. So it would be nice to find a replacement.
Deardorff38
Mentor
...they were cheap enough from the outset
Ororaro
Well-known
What thyphoc?
I do not mess around with free-riding, and cheap brands.
Every second of my life that is not spent with my kids is exactly that: time NOT spent with them.
Same with my Leica lenses: every shot made with a whatthyphoc lens is a shot NOT MADE with a Leica lens.
Ending up with darkroom prints (or a computer full of files) made with lenses other than the original Leicas is a pure and absolute waste. Just like taking care of other people’s kids while your own are elsewhere.
I do not mess around with free-riding, and cheap brands.
Every second of my life that is not spent with my kids is exactly that: time NOT spent with them.
Same with my Leica lenses: every shot made with a whatthyphoc lens is a shot NOT MADE with a Leica lens.
Ending up with darkroom prints (or a computer full of files) made with lenses other than the original Leicas is a pure and absolute waste. Just like taking care of other people’s kids while your own are elsewhere.
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Some people drink the Leica Kool-Aid, others have more open minds.
ranger9
Well-known
I'm impressed with the ambition the maker is displaying. The optical designs seem to be quite sophisticated, with floating elements, aspherics, and advanced glasses. And they're original... not a copy or "re-issue" of anything. On the other hand, Bastian at PhillipReeve seems to be seeing some centering issues, which makes me wonder if the manufacturing control is good enough to handle a floating-element design. He and Matt Osborne on YouTube report flare-control issues as well.
I'm still interested, especially in the 28/1.4 as a candidate "wide-ish normal" for my Pixii Plus (finally time to retire my 28/1.9 screwmount Nokton?) but I'm not going to be firing off any $700 payments until I see what Cosina delivers with the forthcoming 28/1.5 Nokton. Apparently that's going to be US$200 more expensive... but it might be worth that to get good flare control and get a usably graspable focusing ring...
Ororaro
Well-known
I’m a Zeiss Germany fan.
But I’m not a Zeiss Japan fan.
This perplexes me: Does that make me an open minded person? Closed mind?
Leica kool-aid 50%?
Please let me know…
Deardorff38
Mentor
I'm less interested in fanboy posts.... lots of photos have been & will be made with lenses/cameras other than Leica. I'll take Edward Weston's work with his $5 Rapid Rectilinear to most stuff done with a Leica...especially these days.....
Cosina closed the gap with Leica 25 years ago when the 50/1.5 Nokton Asph pushed Leica to replace the old 50/1.4. Now the 50/1 Nokton is pushing Leica to replace the 50/0.95.
Epson and Cosina pushed Leica to bring out the M8.
Posts such as yours that center solely on name and place rather than function- closed minded. Not well thought out. Ignore reality. Most members here on RFF are much smarter than that.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Speaking of which: Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5
Ororaro
Well-known
Let’s just say that Leica needs dumb folks like me, and Cosina relies on the much smarter kind of people, the kind to which you obviously belong.
✌🏻
✌🏻
There is a Leica group on Reddit that thinks much like you do.
Working at a Research Lab for 45 years that has "Optics" in the name, pick up a few things.
Working at a Research Lab for 45 years that has "Optics" in the name, pick up a few things.
Ororaro
Well-known
I do like my Vilia camera very much, though. I often grab it before my Leica.
Pages 3 and 5 from my upcoming book were made with my Vilia.
Pages 3 and 5 from my upcoming book were made with my Vilia.
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Archiver
Mentor
I like to pick lenses that produce the results I want, within my budget.
There are times when I prefer to use the Zeiss C Sonnar 50mm f1.5 instead of my Summicron 50 v5 because I want a look that the Zeiss has, and the Summicron doesn't. Other times, the Summicron 50 is the go.
The Distagon 35 produces a sparkling and crisp 3D image that very few 35s can match - I haven't used the Summilux FLE because it's not in my budget right now, but I'd be interested to compare one day.
On my Panasonic S5, I use Minolta MD lenses for specific projects that benefit from their look, even though I have modern L glass from Canon and Sigma Art lenses. At other times, I'll use Pentax for their look, or Yashica ML. Eventually I'll build a set of Leica R and Zeiss Classic SLR lenses for particular needs, too.