Ororaro
Well-known
I will always remember when a friend of mine showed me 50 prints he made on 11x14 ilford rc.
The first 5 were ok.
I then saw a look.
Then, two looks.
By print #30 I started hating what I was seeing. Talking about image character.
By the end, I swore I’d never touch the lenses he was using.
With Leica, this never happens.
The first 5 were ok.
I then saw a look.
Then, two looks.
By print #30 I started hating what I was seeing. Talking about image character.
By the end, I swore I’d never touch the lenses he was using.
With Leica, this never happens.
"My World and Welcome To it."
This never happens to You. If you do not like a lens, don't use it. Don't tell others how bad a lens is just because you do not like it. Use objective terms other than "it does not say Leica" on it, or "It does not have Made in Germany" on it. Optical performance goes well beyond name and place bias.
We do not need your approval to use a lens.
Leica is not what they used to be. Leica lenses are not the rock-solid construction that they were in the 1950s. Not made as well. Optically first rate, but too many problems for what they cost. Digital- has not been kind to Leica. They are far behind in terms of reliability of firmware and hardware. For what they charge, needs to improve. BUT- Leica groups such as that on Reddit post pictures of the cameras more than pictures taken with the cameras. The most popular Reddit Leica group- you are not permitted to post pictures taken with the camera. Says a lot about the "stupid" people that keeps Leica in business.
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Ororaro
Well-known
I get it, you are triggered. But why?
I get tired of of the same old crap from Leica fanboys, putting everything else down that does not say "Leica" or "Made in Germany", stating that every picture not made with a Leica lens is somehow just "to be hated". Understand what it is about a lens that you do not like, explain it in comprehensible terms, and be objective about it. Otherwise- lacks all credibility. Typical Stereotype Leica User that earns scorn from the rest of the photographic community, and is an embarrassment for those of us that try to understand what we are doing.
yeah. I think that is it.
yeah. I think that is it.
TenEleven
Well-known
I had people literally walk out of the gallery after being asked "So, which of these was taken on a Leica?" when I correctly and honestly answered "None, sorry.".
Also my prints are usually a mix of various lenses, sometimes even developers and film stock. Not by choice, but simply due to availability. Or me not wanting to take my most prized camera/lens into a raging typhoon/snow storm. Yet, no one has ever commented on this, neither publishers, nor curators, customers who bought prints or the gallery visitors (amusing Leica tantrums aside) So I have to conclude that either your friend is inexperienced at darkroom work and you ascribe to lenses what is lackluster darkroom work, or -- you are just making stuff up.
Also, I do not dislike "gear chat". Quite the opposite, I like to jabber about gear as much as the next person, but there is this insistence that good pictures can only be taken with X Y and Z. This is absurd and is as Brian already pointed out, close-minded; worse - it is also bloody boring since it cuts the legs out from any discussion. "X is best, case closed!" Wow, such deep insight!
Lastly, photographically speaking it is also simply not true.
There is no "best" - there is no ultimate answer to the question of "What is the best lens/camera?" Why? Because the question itself is silly. Best for what? Best in what regard? Best for whom? Best for when? Best amongst what? ..et cetera And thus we can safely conclude that people who insist otherwise are full of it. Furthermore, the act of photographing requires intense inquisitive curiosity - excluding entire countries lenses because the name ring does not say "x", "y" or "z" on it is the opposite of curious.
I have seen people post amazing stuff taken with triplet lenses that were made well before modern Germany, let alone Leica even existed. Everyone has their preferences and kinds of gear they like, but that does not mean that it is "the best". Imagine an artist or draftsman getting upset about which type of pencil someone else uses - yet here we are ....
Also my prints are usually a mix of various lenses, sometimes even developers and film stock. Not by choice, but simply due to availability. Or me not wanting to take my most prized camera/lens into a raging typhoon/snow storm. Yet, no one has ever commented on this, neither publishers, nor curators, customers who bought prints or the gallery visitors (amusing Leica tantrums aside) So I have to conclude that either your friend is inexperienced at darkroom work and you ascribe to lenses what is lackluster darkroom work, or -- you are just making stuff up.
Also, I do not dislike "gear chat". Quite the opposite, I like to jabber about gear as much as the next person, but there is this insistence that good pictures can only be taken with X Y and Z. This is absurd and is as Brian already pointed out, close-minded; worse - it is also bloody boring since it cuts the legs out from any discussion. "X is best, case closed!" Wow, such deep insight!
Lastly, photographically speaking it is also simply not true.
There is no "best" - there is no ultimate answer to the question of "What is the best lens/camera?" Why? Because the question itself is silly. Best for what? Best in what regard? Best for whom? Best for when? Best amongst what? ..et cetera And thus we can safely conclude that people who insist otherwise are full of it. Furthermore, the act of photographing requires intense inquisitive curiosity - excluding entire countries lenses because the name ring does not say "x", "y" or "z" on it is the opposite of curious.
I have seen people post amazing stuff taken with triplet lenses that were made well before modern Germany, let alone Leica even existed. Everyone has their preferences and kinds of gear they like, but that does not mean that it is "the best". Imagine an artist or draftsman getting upset about which type of pencil someone else uses - yet here we are ....
Duofold RF
Well-known
Leica is just a tool, one of the many tools that available on the marketplace. Make Leica as a religion is too extreme. You should tell your friend show you his fine wine and deserts first, then look at his prints. by the end you may forget which lens he was using.😂
Archiver
Mentor
I feel like the 'Leica or nothing' attitude can be viewed as a desire for quality taken to a deleterious extreme. It's also a weirdly elitist attitude where a person could substitute any brand name with similar results: "Ferrari or nothing." "Brioni or nothing." Leica makes some fantastic lenses, but so do other manufacturers. I'll use whatever I can to get a specific look or effect, within the parameters of budget and convenience.
Ororaro
Well-known
Please view it as: respecting the original. Supporting the original. Making a part into the original’s future.
No, I do not buy chinese copies. My money is not going there.
No, I do not buy chinese copies. My money is not going there.
Ororaro
Well-known
cboy
Well-known
I didnt know pictures taken by the camera are banned in the group but instead they post gratuitous leica porn lol. Thats quite narcisstic on part of the Leica reddit grouop imo. i dont understand why influencers take gratuitous shorts of their camera/unboxing but dont even show their photos. Perhaps its just down to purely GAS, ad revenue and likes. But i guess it works for Leica given i understand last year was the most profitable for them. Leica marketing went really hard on social media.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
This rant above reminds me of a bizarre incident some 10 years ago. I used to live in Hong Kong when I worked for a European company overseeing compliance issues in the region. One night I was at a local popular camera store checking out gear. I had a Leica 19mm R attached to a cropped sensor Canon around my neck so maybe it was more than 10 years ago. This guy I didn’t know walked up to me and started telling me how much he hated the look of Leica lenses especially for people. He even made a face and a verbal “yuck” in his rant. Meanwhile I remained polite. He said Carl Zeiss is where’s at pointing at the Contax C/Y lenses behind the glass cases. That cheap 45mm pancake Tessar kicks Leica ass. Switch to Carl Zeiss he said for the colors and tonality. Leica too harsh too brittle. Years later on TV I see the same guy accepting some industry award. Turned out he was a well known HK film producer. I didn‘t switch to Contax but if I did it would have saved me a lot of money. Maybe he knew what he was talking about being in the film industry dealing with directors and cinematographers.
* found him.
www.imdb.com
* found him.
Peter Ho-Sun Chan | Producer, Director, Actor
Known for: The Warlords, Dragon, Perhaps Love
www.imdb.com
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Duofold RF
Well-known
Cinematography is dominated by Zeiss, Angenieux, Taylor-Hobson, no Leica. He was right.
Ororaro
Well-known
Maybe that was me.
Whenever I see a Leica user on the street, I approach them and ask them if it’s a fyoudjee. They answer “NO!”, to which I retaliate “oh, it’s a hassoblad, I know those very well”.
And I leave.
Whenever I see a Leica user on the street, I approach them and ask them if it’s a fyoudjee. They answer “NO!”, to which I retaliate “oh, it’s a hassoblad, I know those very well”.
And I leave.
The lenses being discussed in this thread are original designs, are not copies of Leica or any other lenses. As much of a copy of a Leica lens as a Leica Summicron is a copy of the TTH Opic. The mechanism for indicating DOF was used long ago, I had one for an old movie camera.
The marketing of the new lenses- language and culture barrier at work. Needs work to not seem like a Youtube Meme of lens ads.
What the company needs to do - get them into hands of people that will shoot with them, some of the better online reviewers.
The marketing of the new lenses- language and culture barrier at work. Needs work to not seem like a Youtube Meme of lens ads.
What the company needs to do - get them into hands of people that will shoot with them, some of the better online reviewers.
Duofold RF
Well-known
Angenieux’s color reproduction, bokoh is totally different from Zeiss. Their cino lenses are high quality, unfortunately, their still zoom lens are poor mechanic quality, except 28-70mm f2.6. Thypoch are totally different from LLL and BH sell them.
Duofold RF
Well-known
Thypoch should hire a consulting firm to pick up a better brand name, they can refine their design by eliminate the uneven spaced aperture marks.
TenEleven
Well-known
Pledging allegiance to any one company that gives exactly zero beeps about you seems like a smart thing to do. Especially since they repeatedly left even their most ardent fans out in the cold.
Also were these your prints or your friends, maybe keep your story time straight.
Your comment about China somehow "harming" Leitz (Leica Camera AG) is also funny, it's literally Leitz' primary market currently.
Edit: To be clear, I don't have a problem with anyone liking a particular brand or make of item, the issues start with the attitude on display. I have met many Nikon, Canon, Zeiss and other fans and they were able to be completely civil and normal about it.
Also were these your prints or your friends, maybe keep your story time straight.
Your comment about China somehow "harming" Leitz (Leica Camera AG) is also funny, it's literally Leitz' primary market currently.
Edit: To be clear, I don't have a problem with anyone liking a particular brand or make of item, the issues start with the attitude on display. I have met many Nikon, Canon, Zeiss and other fans and they were able to be completely civil and normal about it.
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The great Leica photographers mostly used Nikkors, Zeiss Sonnars, Canon, and Leica lenses. The latter- Elmars, Summitars, Summars, Summicrons, Hektors, Summarits. Not sure how many used Steinheil, Acall, Enna, and others.
By the end of the 1960s, most professionals had switched to SLRs.
The digital age- very few people making a living taking pictures with a Leica.
So- the photographic enthusiast is the target market for these lines of lenses. The companies do not have to worry about professionals buying them, Leica has not worried about that for decades.
By the end of the 1960s, most professionals had switched to SLRs.
The digital age- very few people making a living taking pictures with a Leica.
So- the photographic enthusiast is the target market for these lines of lenses. The companies do not have to worry about professionals buying them, Leica has not worried about that for decades.
Duofold RF
Well-known
That’s true, that China is Leica’s largest market, Leica is considered as luxury goods with only 1% of the world camera share. Majority Pro use C or N or S.
I have a scan of some Leica Brochures, this one has the new "Summircon" in it. All of a sudden this new Chinese company misspelling "ASPH" in the ad does ot seem to be as bad. This is pretty bad.
