This thread became two topics for discussion.
I moved the discussion for Inflation here:
rangefinderforum.com
This thread- surging prices for some used gear is outside of inflation, more driven my limited supply of Photographic items that seem to be "in style".
Case in point: Fast Canon Rangefinder lenses. The 85/1.5 Canon that I picked up for $400 several years ago, usually considered "a Dog"- sells for 10x that in the last two years. The Canon 50/0.95: used to go for $200.
Prices on classic lenses are way up due to the availability of mirrorless digital cameras and adapters for just about any mount. I bought a Canon 7 breech mount to Nikon Z-Mount adapter before I bought the Nikon Z-5. The $200 Canon 50/0.95 is incredible on it. I sold a Nikon F3HP with MD-4, LNIB- paid for the Z-5. Humorous note- the Camera shop offered me $150 for the F3HP. I made sure to let them know the Z-5 cost less than what the F3HP went for.
I moved the discussion for Inflation here:
Inflation 2024
Inflation is one thing, some items spiking into the stratosphere is entirely different. One is caused by government, the other by citizens via supply/demand.
rangefinderforum.com
This thread- surging prices for some used gear is outside of inflation, more driven my limited supply of Photographic items that seem to be "in style".
Case in point: Fast Canon Rangefinder lenses. The 85/1.5 Canon that I picked up for $400 several years ago, usually considered "a Dog"- sells for 10x that in the last two years. The Canon 50/0.95: used to go for $200.
Prices on classic lenses are way up due to the availability of mirrorless digital cameras and adapters for just about any mount. I bought a Canon 7 breech mount to Nikon Z-Mount adapter before I bought the Nikon Z-5. The $200 Canon 50/0.95 is incredible on it. I sold a Nikon F3HP with MD-4, LNIB- paid for the Z-5. Humorous note- the Camera shop offered me $150 for the F3HP. I made sure to let them know the Z-5 cost less than what the F3HP went for.
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Darinwc
Established
I think there are multiple factors to the rising prices. Inflation and government policy are not on the list at all.
1. It's hip to use film again. And honestly that's a good thing. Especially with the rising prices and shrinking availability of Kodak and Fuji film, many small manufacturers have been able to release new stocks of film. But as far as cameras are concerned, there is much more demand for the small sexy cameras. Leica of course, but look at what people will pay for a contax t2 while I cannot sell a Nikon n8008 for 10 bucks!
2. Mirrorless cameras. The ability to use just about any lens on the latest digital cameras has increased interest in all vintage lenses. The fact that many of the considered 'bad' lenses give a different look to the perfect images the modern lenses provide.. v that's a whole different facet! And people buying lenses often end up with film bodies that they want to pay with.
3. eBay policies. I seem to remember that eBay used to have some minimum cost to list an item. But since you can list an item for any price for free now, it is better to list at an obscenely high price and just sit on it. But since eBay is trying to be Amazon, they have not given any incentive to list as an auction anymore. Less that 1 percent of the items are listed as auction now.
4. It's becoming a collectors market. Slowly, people are becoming more interested in collecting. Maybe there is more information available. But there is a bit of a frenzy over 'special versions'. A red dot or a extra digit in a serial number can double the asking price even though a camera or lens would be otherwise identical. And some people get off on showing off their cases of 200 of the same camera.
1. It's hip to use film again. And honestly that's a good thing. Especially with the rising prices and shrinking availability of Kodak and Fuji film, many small manufacturers have been able to release new stocks of film. But as far as cameras are concerned, there is much more demand for the small sexy cameras. Leica of course, but look at what people will pay for a contax t2 while I cannot sell a Nikon n8008 for 10 bucks!
2. Mirrorless cameras. The ability to use just about any lens on the latest digital cameras has increased interest in all vintage lenses. The fact that many of the considered 'bad' lenses give a different look to the perfect images the modern lenses provide.. v that's a whole different facet! And people buying lenses often end up with film bodies that they want to pay with.
3. eBay policies. I seem to remember that eBay used to have some minimum cost to list an item. But since you can list an item for any price for free now, it is better to list at an obscenely high price and just sit on it. But since eBay is trying to be Amazon, they have not given any incentive to list as an auction anymore. Less that 1 percent of the items are listed as auction now.
4. It's becoming a collectors market. Slowly, people are becoming more interested in collecting. Maybe there is more information available. But there is a bit of a frenzy over 'special versions'. A red dot or a extra digit in a serial number can double the asking price even though a camera or lens would be otherwise identical. And some people get off on showing off their cases of 200 of the same camera.
I gave a pair of Polaroid cameras to two Teenagers in my Daughter's youth group. One told me it was the most popular camera in the Dorm, she let other students buy film and use it. I've given away cameras such as the Pentax ME Super with a 50/1.4, and N8008s with a 35~70 zoom. They are seeing use. I have boxes of cameras, many given to me in return for repair work- some 15 years ago. I don't have the patience to sell them, just to work on them.
I'll pick up a Nikon Zf with 40/2, probably this week. Nice retirement present to myself. My wife got me a beautiful Seiko Analog chronograph, "Solar Powered". I sent the one she bought for me 40 years ago to Seiko to be rebuilt. The Zf is nice, will go well with my collection of lenses. But- I'm more excited with picking up a small collection of Sonnars, taking them apart, and rebuilding them.
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
It will be fun to see what comes of them
and them, in this context, is both the Zf & the collection of Sonnars oh master jedi I'm really thinking that by the time my next birthday rolls around in September I may be seriously looking at a Z. Probably the Z5 & used/refurb at that given my budget. That and a handful of adapters and eventually the three basic primes (28/2.8, 50/1.8 & 85/1.8) over time & I'd probably not need another system this side of what ever lies beyond.
The Nikon Z5, at $1000 new, with the same 3.6MDot finder as the Z8- has got to be the best deal on the market for full-frame mirrorless cameras.
the Zf- Just because I like the "User Interface".
the Zf- Just because I like the "User Interface".
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Film seems to be enjoying a resurgence, maybe it's just trendy but it's running old gear prices up. Couple that with the fact that old gear is getting older and fewer items are available. One really good example is the current price of functioning Epson R-D1 cameras.
Archiver
Mentor
Would love to know what your new and 40 year old Seikos are!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Priceshmises....
Film gear went cheap during digital take over.
Now it is turn for digital to stay cheap until it became trashed by many hands changes with less and less clean copies left.
Manufacturers are pushing to electronics, no optics, no mechanical, dirt cheap to make.
Sooner or later they will suffocante in their own s... because mobile phones are just as good for most .
Film gear went cheap during digital take over.
Now it is turn for digital to stay cheap until it became trashed by many hands changes with less and less clean copies left.
Manufacturers are pushing to electronics, no optics, no mechanical, dirt cheap to make.
Sooner or later they will suffocante in their own s... because mobile phones are just as good for most .
DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
Times have changed. Century 21 rules are a culture all their own, and photo gear is no exception.
Here in Australia, the cost of almost everything - except, fortunately, good wine which remains a bargain since China stopped quaffing our quality reds to punish our idiot politicians for loud mouthing them - has gone up in the last 18 months, many things by up to 50%. Our dollar aka the South Pacific Peso seems Supaglued at 65 US cents, business wants it that way and our timid politicians aren't up to doing anything to displease their good mates and generous donors. So we suffer.
Film prices here are sky high now. Buying a pro pack of 120 is an investment. I can no longer afford bulk rolls of anything made by Kodak. Ilford remains affordable, just. The few 'odd bod' bulk film rolls I've found are best avoided, but even their prices are no longer in the bargain range.
A visit to the top retail photo dealer in Melbourne is nowadays for me, such a depressing experience, I rarely go.
The few secondhand camera shops here I occasionally visit all say the same. Their costs are up, their sales are down. Notwithstanding what everyone seems to be saying about a 'resurgence', film cameras seem to gather dust on their shelves. Old digital cameras clutter up their storage areas. Even digital Nikons sit around for months until someone coughs up the high prices being asked and buys. Ditto Ebay, once a gold mine for used gear. Now hardly anyone bothers to list and when one is sold, the difference between the asking and sale prices (which can easily be checked) are often astounding.
Film camera repair shops are closing, one after the other. Their prices are also so high, I now find it easier to take my cameras to Malaysia or even Singapore to be repaired, much more cheaply.
Charity shops, once so prolific with old cameras, nowadays see very little photo gear being donated. What often turns up in their bins often goes directly to land fill. Now and then I help out by evaluating and testing donated gear for one of our shops. Almost never do I find anything worth putting on the shelves.
In Brunei where I often visit friends, the last three camera shops have closed or are closing. One recently put out an advertisement for locals to bring in their old cameras to be valued and sold (on consignment of course). They were inundated by would-be sellers, as the dealer told me he had to deal with ONE THOUSAND queries in one week. That plan quickly fell through as nobody wanted to buy.
Anecdotally, many of my friends who have old gear are now hoarding it.
We live in different times. I (and I'm sure many others) well remember the GODs (those good old days) when a trip to New York or Boston meant visiting a few camera centers for bargains in everything they had in stock. In 1982 I bought FOUR (don't ask why) Weston Master Vs all in top working condition (three of them still are) and complete kits even in their original boxes, for US $20.00 each. The Ozbuck was worth US$1.20 at that time, now 65 cents, blah.
Now and then I look at my old photo magazines from pre 1980 and the prices I see for quality gear makes me want to cry.
Was everything really that cheap back then? Yes, it was. A golden era. Now that ship has passed, in fact the whole damn fleet has gone out to see and won't be returning to port.
Here in Australia, the cost of almost everything - except, fortunately, good wine which remains a bargain since China stopped quaffing our quality reds to punish our idiot politicians for loud mouthing them - has gone up in the last 18 months, many things by up to 50%. Our dollar aka the South Pacific Peso seems Supaglued at 65 US cents, business wants it that way and our timid politicians aren't up to doing anything to displease their good mates and generous donors. So we suffer.
Film prices here are sky high now. Buying a pro pack of 120 is an investment. I can no longer afford bulk rolls of anything made by Kodak. Ilford remains affordable, just. The few 'odd bod' bulk film rolls I've found are best avoided, but even their prices are no longer in the bargain range.
A visit to the top retail photo dealer in Melbourne is nowadays for me, such a depressing experience, I rarely go.
The few secondhand camera shops here I occasionally visit all say the same. Their costs are up, their sales are down. Notwithstanding what everyone seems to be saying about a 'resurgence', film cameras seem to gather dust on their shelves. Old digital cameras clutter up their storage areas. Even digital Nikons sit around for months until someone coughs up the high prices being asked and buys. Ditto Ebay, once a gold mine for used gear. Now hardly anyone bothers to list and when one is sold, the difference between the asking and sale prices (which can easily be checked) are often astounding.
Film camera repair shops are closing, one after the other. Their prices are also so high, I now find it easier to take my cameras to Malaysia or even Singapore to be repaired, much more cheaply.
Charity shops, once so prolific with old cameras, nowadays see very little photo gear being donated. What often turns up in their bins often goes directly to land fill. Now and then I help out by evaluating and testing donated gear for one of our shops. Almost never do I find anything worth putting on the shelves.
In Brunei where I often visit friends, the last three camera shops have closed or are closing. One recently put out an advertisement for locals to bring in their old cameras to be valued and sold (on consignment of course). They were inundated by would-be sellers, as the dealer told me he had to deal with ONE THOUSAND queries in one week. That plan quickly fell through as nobody wanted to buy.
Anecdotally, many of my friends who have old gear are now hoarding it.
We live in different times. I (and I'm sure many others) well remember the GODs (those good old days) when a trip to New York or Boston meant visiting a few camera centers for bargains in everything they had in stock. In 1982 I bought FOUR (don't ask why) Weston Master Vs all in top working condition (three of them still are) and complete kits even in their original boxes, for US $20.00 each. The Ozbuck was worth US$1.20 at that time, now 65 cents, blah.
Now and then I look at my old photo magazines from pre 1980 and the prices I see for quality gear makes me want to cry.
Was everything really that cheap back then? Yes, it was. A golden era. Now that ship has passed, in fact the whole damn fleet has gone out to see and won't be returning to port.
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DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
It will be fun to see what comes of them
I'm really thinking that by the time my next birthday rolls around in September I may be seriously looking at a Z. Probably the Z5 & used/refurb at that given my budget. That and a handful of adapters and eventually the three basic primes (28/2.8, 50/1.8 & 85/1.8) over time & I'd probably not need another system this side of what ever lies beyond.
I'm thinking the same BUT in Australia the Zf with that 40 is AUD $4000. Ditto the Zfc retails for almost AUD $1700 with the 28. Crazy prices. Who can afford this with the Ozzydolla at 65 US cents?
In Singapore, and Malaysia where I sometimes hang out, new digi camera sales have bottomed. Ditto Brunei where one by one the last few camera shops have closed or are closing. The writing seems to be on the wall for 'one of' camera dealers, and it's in big print, loud and clear. Dealers have to diversify or go broke. Many are now selling other lines, mobile phones, even laptops.
Also try to get a roll of film processed and printed in Malaysia. Futile. In Singapore I believe or or two places still offer this service, at premium prices.
All this written, the Z5 seems good value even down here. But then again the only one I've seen on sale as secondhand was going for AUD $1600 without a lens. So.
So for now I will make do with my now ancient (like their owner) D700 and D800.
I've seen some price degradation in some items over the past few months.
Most ebay listings in the 'old days' were auctions, now most of them are BIN.
I've snagged a few items recently from auctions, that ended up going for significantly less than recent sales of equivalent BIN listings; less than half the cost, in fact.
So maybe keep an eye out for auction listings.
Most ebay listings in the 'old days' were auctions, now most of them are BIN.
I've snagged a few items recently from auctions, that ended up going for significantly less than recent sales of equivalent BIN listings; less than half the cost, in fact.
So maybe keep an eye out for auction listings.
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
I far prefer BIN. I hate stupid idjits that get silly at the last second and bid things up for example. I personally find I do better overall with looking for appropriate BIN prices.
Now, there are idjits out there with over inflated ideas of what their cruft is worth but that doesn't bother me. There will be others.
Now, there are idjits out there with over inflated ideas of what their cruft is worth but that doesn't bother me. There will be others.
That’s the thing, I haven’t seen that sort of thing happening.
I used to manage used sales at a store and would commonly see $500 items get bid up to $1500 but that isn’t happening anymore. There just aren’t all that many auction listings.
One time I had a 90 Tele Elmarit listed and it went to $1300ish with two bidders duking it out—when there were BINs available for half that.
The high bidder paid immediately and then I bought the BIN with the proceeds. 😀
Those days are over…
Anyway, I use a snipe service and lately have gotten many items for much much less than BINs have been selling for.
I used to manage used sales at a store and would commonly see $500 items get bid up to $1500 but that isn’t happening anymore. There just aren’t all that many auction listings.
One time I had a 90 Tele Elmarit listed and it went to $1300ish with two bidders duking it out—when there were BINs available for half that.
The high bidder paid immediately and then I bought the BIN with the proceeds. 😀
Those days are over…
Anyway, I use a snipe service and lately have gotten many items for much much less than BINs have been selling for.
Archiver
Mentor
@splitimageview I notice this with legacy lens sales. So many Minolta, Contax et al are on eBay as BIN listings, usually from Japan.
Yes, in fact two of my purchases were Contax lenses. A 35-70/3.4 and a 135/2.8. Both are perfect and went for less than half the price of recent sales of BIN listings.
My guess is that most people want instant gratification and are willing to pay for it...
My guess is that most people want instant gratification and are willing to pay for it...
Bill Clark
Mentor
My primary camera I use is an iPhone.
It is sitting on the table next to me.
It’s easy to use.
I still use black and white film only because it reminds me of my youth. My analog darkroom is still set up but not used very much any more.
The only camera I buy new is when I get a new phone.
DAG lives near Madison Wisconsin. So does my brother in law. We’re going to visit in a few weeks. Maybe I’ll stop by and say hello to DAG.
For me, photography is about making photographs of my family. Our oldest grand child is now driving! Living in L.A. They grow up fast.
It is sitting on the table next to me.
It’s easy to use.
I still use black and white film only because it reminds me of my youth. My analog darkroom is still set up but not used very much any more.
The only camera I buy new is when I get a new phone.
DAG lives near Madison Wisconsin. So does my brother in law. We’re going to visit in a few weeks. Maybe I’ll stop by and say hello to DAG.
For me, photography is about making photographs of my family. Our oldest grand child is now driving! Living in L.A. They grow up fast.
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I brought the M9 to the skating rink yesterday, with the 50/1.1 7Art, 75/1.25 7Art, and 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T". I also brought the M240. Confirmed my opinion that the VF-2 and Liveview has much too long latency for moving subjects, The Nikon Z5 is better.
I can still focus on a moving subject with the RF. The 7art 50/1.1, wide-open on the M9. This is my favorite camera of all-time.
I can still focus on a moving subject with the RF. The 7art 50/1.1, wide-open on the M9. This is my favorite camera of all-time.
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
Lovely.
I really love my M 240 but I'll never be able to afford another Leica. But the Z5 is so good that I'll have no qualms moving to it when that time comes.
Still, from yesterday with the Nokton 50/1.5 on the drive home:
A shot I could grab because I'm so comfortable with that camera and lens.
bcostin
Well-known
On the other hand, many of us never really lived in places with "golden-age" pricing or availability. I was still a kid at the time my father built his collection from the smudgy newsprint pages of Shutterbug Ads magazine. He would have loved the selection on eBay, even with higher prices.