Gregm61
Well-known
Cloning spots off scanned 35mm negatives is a much bigger PITA than the couple of minutes it takes to clean a digital sensor or remove the few dust spots a digital file might contain.
roscoetuff
Well-known
Sensor dust is a fact of digital photography. Don't be demoralized or depressed about it - do something! All cameras suffer this, and the sensor shake ain't gonna cure it if you use your camera outside in wide ranging conditions (I have). But we're far from powerless in dealing with it. Best solution I've found isn't cheap, but worth every penny - like most things. And no, though this probably sounds like I'm a shill, I have no stake in this... just hate to think someone wants to dump a $5,000 camera because they can't clean the sensor. Been there (for less $'s with a Sony), felt your pain. No need to stay there.
Recommend the solution that comes from a company that markets primarily for cleaning telescopes and/or microscopes... but also cameras. Most of the other products are knock-offs without the technical background. I suggest calling their tech folks: I did and they were very helpful. You'll get professional cleaning gear, a loupe for examing your sensor, and all the right tools for a first class job. They have youtubes on how to do it, and can walk you through any problems. Nice to have a live body on the other end of the phone!!! Truth is that most problems folks have aren't dust but moisture - either from the air, or from using spit to try to clean things, and moisture is a special problem for sensors. Don't be intimidated - it's really easy. Call: Visible Dust at Tel: 1-877-999-9404. They're up in Canada. They have a website: https://www.visibledust.com/index.php but if you call, they'll knock something off the price, and even tell you that a small kit will clean all you need for a lifetime.
Recommend the solution that comes from a company that markets primarily for cleaning telescopes and/or microscopes... but also cameras. Most of the other products are knock-offs without the technical background. I suggest calling their tech folks: I did and they were very helpful. You'll get professional cleaning gear, a loupe for examing your sensor, and all the right tools for a first class job. They have youtubes on how to do it, and can walk you through any problems. Nice to have a live body on the other end of the phone!!! Truth is that most problems folks have aren't dust but moisture - either from the air, or from using spit to try to clean things, and moisture is a special problem for sensors. Don't be intimidated - it's really easy. Call: Visible Dust at Tel: 1-877-999-9404. They're up in Canada. They have a website: https://www.visibledust.com/index.php but if you call, they'll knock something off the price, and even tell you that a small kit will clean all you need for a lifetime.
giganova
Well-known
> Why did you decide NOT to buy a digital Leica M?
Because every time I want to pull the trigger and get a digital M, there's rumors of a new model coming soon. That's why I still have a flip phone, my car is 20 years old and I still use film Ms.
I mean, if you're running around these days with an M8 from the last decade, everyone will give you a pity smile, but if you have an M2/3/4 around your neck, people just nod at you and admire how cool you are. The same is true for current M10 owners, but just give it a year and they will feel sorry for themselves. (just kidding)
Because every time I want to pull the trigger and get a digital M, there's rumors of a new model coming soon. That's why I still have a flip phone, my car is 20 years old and I still use film Ms.
I mean, if you're running around these days with an M8 from the last decade, everyone will give you a pity smile, but if you have an M2/3/4 around your neck, people just nod at you and admire how cool you are.
The same is true for current M10 owners, but just give it a year and they will feel sorry for themselves. (just kidding)giganova
Well-known
True, when you are a prolific film user, you spend about as much on film as you'd spend on a digital M over a 4-5 year period. Money-wise, there's no difference except that you don't have to spend all the money up front and the gear doesn't depreciate over time.
But I guess these are all excuses and if one is passionate about photography, then we'll find the funds somehow. In truth, I simply love film and can't get excited about digital photography at all. That's why I don't have a digital camera and have no plans getting one.
Daryl J.
Well-known
Rapid obsolescence, cost, rapid obsolescence, reliability and rapid obsolescence.
giganova
Well-known
You forgot to mention rapid obsolescence!
I'd rather switch than fight! My Bessa R4A still has half a roll of Fuji NPS 160 loaded 8 years ago, my last use of film. When I switched (with an M8) it was sudden and complete. I greatly enjoyed working in the darkroom, but I found greater joy in the Lightroom!
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
With M10 rumor/announcement, I gave it another thought (going for M10, picking up M9 or 240 at lower price) but decided against it. My personal conclusion was that I wanted a feasible way to bring the photo I really liked into darkroom and print. I don't have a way to do it with digital right now.
Also my entire M kit including 3 bodies (inc original BP M4 and modern Leicavit MP!) and bunch of lenses are just about the price of one M10 plus a Summarit-M. Couldn't justify it.
Also my entire M kit including 3 bodies (inc original BP M4 and modern Leicavit MP!) and bunch of lenses are just about the price of one M10 plus a Summarit-M. Couldn't justify it.
RObert Budding
D'oh!
The value proposition isn't there. I'd prefer to buy the Fujifilm GFX 50S.
Tom R
Established
In my case it makes no sense financially or aesthetically.
I cannot think of any image that I could not create with the equipment that I have (and have had for nearly 30 years). In fact, that very statement sums it up for me: Technology is no substitute for imagination and energy.
The reason that I've used Leica cameras for these decades is these were the tools that I acquired at the beginning of a long term relationship with photography. My lenses date from the 70's and 80's (latest). I use M4-Ps for my analog work because I don't worry about being mugged for my equipment --I photograph in some sketchy places-- and these bodies accommodate my full collection of lenses. I have an M8.2, several studios (Capture, Lightroom ...), and a scanner or two because I wanted to learn something about digital photography. From what little I've learned, I don't see why doubling the megapixels, etc. would make any material difference to my work. Hell, I'd rather spend the money saved on a good lab!
In fact, in so many respects, I see so many more photographs being produced at this time in history, with so little new or interesting to say, that it makes me want to take up painting.
I cannot think of any image that I could not create with the equipment that I have (and have had for nearly 30 years). In fact, that very statement sums it up for me: Technology is no substitute for imagination and energy.
The reason that I've used Leica cameras for these decades is these were the tools that I acquired at the beginning of a long term relationship with photography. My lenses date from the 70's and 80's (latest). I use M4-Ps for my analog work because I don't worry about being mugged for my equipment --I photograph in some sketchy places-- and these bodies accommodate my full collection of lenses. I have an M8.2, several studios (Capture, Lightroom ...), and a scanner or two because I wanted to learn something about digital photography. From what little I've learned, I don't see why doubling the megapixels, etc. would make any material difference to my work. Hell, I'd rather spend the money saved on a good lab!
In fact, in so many respects, I see so many more photographs being produced at this time in history, with so little new or interesting to say, that it makes me want to take up painting.
bizarrius
the great
because i have experienced the smell of fixer.
Fotobot
Established
You would not be better off with a Leica, and it would certainly depreciate a lot. If you bought a new M10 for $6,600 today, you can be almost certain that in two years it would be worth $4,600 whether you used it or not. It's almost a guaranteed $2,000 loss over the next two years. For some people it's a drop in the bucket, but for most people that's a big loss.
Ruffmeister
Member
100% agree with this. I have a 6D and digi M too and the experience is very different with the two.
roscoetuff
Well-known
Just a word to say that as a new buyer of a Leica M4-2 (not a digital M), my purchase was dictated by cost on one hand. Here, the digital Leica M for an outsider with NO lenses is a big leap of faith. There are ways - like rentals - to lower that, but in a sense if you're going to buy, a rental raises the price but reduces the theoretical risk... because you have a 1 week trial or so. I decided this was money down a rat hole as step 1.
For me, step 1 was to try the rangefinder experience with a film M. This offered an opportunity to acquire some lenses so that if LATER it was something I wanted to stick with and wanted to step up to the digital M, then it was an incremental rather than momentus step. In addition, it gave me an opportunity to shoot film, work with contrast filters, blah blah blah... learn a lot of the parts of photography I have very limited experience with. All I knew was that, "Gee... I'd like to shoot more B&W..." and a Monochrom M seemed to special purpose at the price to make sense. My M4-2 can shoot color any time I want... I don't want... but it's an option that's just $6 or so away at any time.
That said, I love the size of these lenses... so small! And they fit into my preferred manual shooting style... and I'm loving the manual, handheld meter, learning the zone system... and the gorgeous output. Will I go digital Leica in the future having an experience of the film M? Yes, this makes it possible in an incremental way, and that's my style, too. Incremental changes. And a used Leica M10 will appeal one day... or at least an "Open Box". Size is an issue. Not make or break... but I like the Leica has begun to get it's digital feet under it and begin to listen to the market and respond by making what it thinks it wants.... though I'd point out that making a camera that worked with its existing M lenses is exactly that. And I also like that Leica is comfortable with small product runs and I'll know they really love their customers if they make a successor to the M7/MP/M-A line of film cameras perhaps updating it for more contemporary metering for those who might want that.
My two cents.
For me, step 1 was to try the rangefinder experience with a film M. This offered an opportunity to acquire some lenses so that if LATER it was something I wanted to stick with and wanted to step up to the digital M, then it was an incremental rather than momentus step. In addition, it gave me an opportunity to shoot film, work with contrast filters, blah blah blah... learn a lot of the parts of photography I have very limited experience with. All I knew was that, "Gee... I'd like to shoot more B&W..." and a Monochrom M seemed to special purpose at the price to make sense. My M4-2 can shoot color any time I want... I don't want... but it's an option that's just $6 or so away at any time.
That said, I love the size of these lenses... so small! And they fit into my preferred manual shooting style... and I'm loving the manual, handheld meter, learning the zone system... and the gorgeous output. Will I go digital Leica in the future having an experience of the film M? Yes, this makes it possible in an incremental way, and that's my style, too. Incremental changes. And a used Leica M10 will appeal one day... or at least an "Open Box". Size is an issue. Not make or break... but I like the Leica has begun to get it's digital feet under it and begin to listen to the market and respond by making what it thinks it wants.... though I'd point out that making a camera that worked with its existing M lenses is exactly that. And I also like that Leica is comfortable with small product runs and I'll know they really love their customers if they make a successor to the M7/MP/M-A line of film cameras perhaps updating it for more contemporary metering for those who might want that.
My two cents.
greyowl
Newbie
I mostly shoot landscapes / macro / wildlife / bif etc etc and no portraits and little street photography so I use DSLR's and mirrorless for these.
For fun, I still shoot film on the contax iia and iiia and G2 system and also on an M3 but, at the time I couldn't find/afford a 50mm summicron though I missed a couple of DR 'crons at auction sub 400 GBP so I got a Zeiss planar ZM together with a 90mm tele elmarit - great lenses.
Obviously the price and depreciation of the digital M's is a big consideration though I would love to own an M10 and the 50 asph cron and an elamarit 28/2.8 asph.
If I was doing substantial 'street' / portrait work, I would seriously consider the leica for the optics and the compactness.
What would be really neat would be if Leica built an M unit with a mechanical 'front' end e.g. shutter/body/main controls and a digital back that could be upgraded for new sensors and electronics.
I suppose 6k for an M10 isn't too bad compared to 3.5K ( GBP ) for a Canon 5d iv - and the secondhand market in M lenses is pretty bullish at the moment. I don't imagine you would lose money investing in good M glass.
For fun, I still shoot film on the contax iia and iiia and G2 system and also on an M3 but, at the time I couldn't find/afford a 50mm summicron though I missed a couple of DR 'crons at auction sub 400 GBP so I got a Zeiss planar ZM together with a 90mm tele elmarit - great lenses.
Obviously the price and depreciation of the digital M's is a big consideration though I would love to own an M10 and the 50 asph cron and an elamarit 28/2.8 asph.
If I was doing substantial 'street' / portrait work, I would seriously consider the leica for the optics and the compactness.
What would be really neat would be if Leica built an M unit with a mechanical 'front' end e.g. shutter/body/main controls and a digital back that could be upgraded for new sensors and electronics.
I suppose 6k for an M10 isn't too bad compared to 3.5K ( GBP ) for a Canon 5d iv - and the secondhand market in M lenses is pretty bullish at the moment. I don't imagine you would lose money investing in good M glass.
Michael Markey
Mentor
Its not the expense or reliability issues for me but rather a case of versatility and suitability.
I was looking around for a smaller alternative to a traditional DSLR for the equestrian sport shots I seem to be always taking but a digital Leica just wouldn`t be flexible enough or support the longer f/l `s required.
The Sony A7 series cameras however will plus they`ll take my Leica lenses.
If I was just doing street or portraits I`d have a digital Leica.
I was looking around for a smaller alternative to a traditional DSLR for the equestrian sport shots I seem to be always taking but a digital Leica just wouldn`t be flexible enough or support the longer f/l `s required.
The Sony A7 series cameras however will plus they`ll take my Leica lenses.
If I was just doing street or portraits I`d have a digital Leica.
rbsinto
Well-known
Two reasons:
1. Because it is a Leica, which means it is over-priced and over-hyped,
and,
2. Because it is Digital, which means it doesn't use Film.
Robert
1. Because it is a Leica, which means it is over-priced and over-hyped,
and,
2. Because it is Digital, which means it doesn't use Film.
Robert
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
I'm not a professional photographer so given my income I could never justify spending that much on a camera.
By comparison the used car I bought for considerably less than the cost of a Leica M10
has been getting me back and forth reliably for work for the last several years.
You might call that an "apples and oranges" comparison, but it isn't really...
Chris
By comparison the used car I bought for considerably less than the cost of a Leica M10
has been getting me back and forth reliably for work for the last several years.
You might call that an "apples and oranges" comparison, but it isn't really...
Chris
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I bought two digital Ms. My first, an M8 when it came out. Into my 4th week of ownership, the shutter jammed and it had to be sent in for replacement. Since then it has worked flawlessly, but I stopped using it when I bought an M9. My M9 functioned great for about a year, but the sensor began to exhibit streaks and anomalies. The sensor was replaced. All repairs were under warranty, but the new sensor would exhibit streaks every now and then. I do not have the funds to fix it. I use it occaisionally, but know it can fail at any moment. I don't know the reliability of the later digital M models, but I will never buy one again, and do not recommend when asked, that anyone should as well.
I am curious about the Q and the new CL. Though I probably will save my money. There are other cameras that do what the Leica digitals do, but with better reliability.
I am curious about the Q and the new CL. Though I probably will save my money. There are other cameras that do what the Leica digitals do, but with better reliability.
FranZ
Established
Because of an anomaly in my right eye I can't manually focus any camera, so no Leicas for me.
My Sony RX1Rm2, pairing one of today's best FF sensors with an F2.0 Sonnar more than compensates for this shortcoming and as a bonus with the fixed lens, no sensor dust either.
My Sony RX1Rm2, pairing one of today's best FF sensors with an F2.0 Sonnar more than compensates for this shortcoming and as a bonus with the fixed lens, no sensor dust either.