21mm Super Angulon

First off I'd like to say what a wonderful and massive thread this is! Ive been enjoying looking through it quite a bit :)

I finally took the leap and got a 21SA! Adorama gave me a deal on one that I just couldnt pass up. It's in the mail as I type (I was going to inspect and pick-up, but they shipped it before I had a chance) and I wanted to preemptively ask for some advice so I can be ready for it when it gets here.

I bought the lens from them through ebay, I offered them a really low price and they accepted! They say that the focus is extremely stiff but otherwise in very good condition. I know some of you have done your own CLAs and such on this lens, and I was wondering if any of you folks know if this is something I can try to easily DIY. I'm no stranger to taking equipment apart, so I'm confident that I can do this without much hassel...unless you guys think it would be a huge pain in the ass.

I guess my question is, would I have to take the whole lens apart to mess with the focus ring, or can I just get the ring off without touching the elements? My only real concern is that if I have to mess with the glass that I might scratch or misalign something. Also, I recently found out (the hard way) that the dust where I live is particularly dangerous to lenses!

Any help, insight, or discussion would be greatly appreciated!
 
enero said:
They say that the focus is extremely stiff but otherwise in very good condition. I know some of you have done your own CLAs and such on this lens, and I was wondering if any of you folks know if this is something I can try to easily DIY. ...

I guess my question is, would I have to take the whole lens apart to mess with the focus ring, or can I just get the ring off without touching the elements? My only real concern is that if I have to mess with the glass that I might scratch or misalign something. Also, I recently found out (the hard way) that the dust where I live is particularly dangerous to lenses!

Any help, insight, or discussion would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

Optically, this is an amazingly easy lens to work on but there are some issues that you have to pay attention to.

First is the front lens group. It has to be screwed in to the optical barrel very tightly with a sharp spanner and then not touched again. If it gets loose, the aperture blades can skip out of their channels and then easily bend. If you bend one, you need to take the replacement from a broken lens since there are zero spare blades left at Leica or any of the suppliers (according to Sherry K.) And since each lens only has four blades, that's much fewer than most lenses and so there are even fewer spare blades available.

Second is that YES, you will have to take the rear group off then a lockring out with a spanner, in order to get to the focusing helicoid. The threads in the helicoid are VERY fine. The finest I've seen in any Leica lens. This is critical because if the shear of the lube is too high then your lens will be stiffer. Don't just oil it up either that will cause lube or whatever to migrate into the aperture and onto the inner element surfaces.

If your dust is really bad and you don't have a ventilated hood for camera work or a dust free area, it would be better to send it out for CLA, in my opinion.

Phil Forrest
 
Thanks for the advice Phil, I actually had to return it. There was an insane amount of haze in both the front and rear elements. The focus ring stiffness was the least of its problems. They had a second one that they said was in better condition, but when I went in to check it out, it was actually in even worse condition then the first! Oh well. I guess my search continues...

Phil_F_NM said:
Optically, this is an amazingly easy lens to work on but there are some issues that you have to pay attention to.

First is the front lens group. It has to be screwed in to the optical barrel very tightly with a sharp spanner and then not touched again. If it gets loose, the aperture blades can skip out of their channels and then easily bend. If you bend one, you need to take the replacement from a broken lens since there are zero spare blades left at Leica or any of the suppliers (according to Sherry K.) And since each lens only has four blades, that's much fewer than most lenses and so there are even fewer spare blades available.

Second is that YES, you will have to take the rear group off then a lockring out with a spanner, in order to get to the focusing helicoid. The threads in the helicoid are VERY fine. The finest I've seen in any Leica lens. This is critical because if the shear of the lube is too high then your lens will be stiffer. Don't just oil it up either that will cause lube or whatever to migrate into the aperture and onto the inner element surfaces.

If your dust is really bad and you don't have a ventilated hood for camera work or a dust free area, it would be better to send it out for CLA, in my opinion.

Phil Forrest
Click to expand...
 
Is there such a thing as 21mm SA that does NOT have haze in it? I have a hazy one, and am returning the (hazy) one that I bought to replace it, and I've had dealers take out their flashlights to check theirs for haze. So far I have not found a clean one.

Is it possible for a repair person to get rid of this haze?
 
CBH -- I can't see any haze in mind via a flashlight, just some dust spots (don't seem to effect image quality). I'm local to NYC and I have it listed for sale in the classifieds -- would be happy to let you take a look for yourself if you're interested. Send me a PM, I'm in the city M-F for work.
 
Wish I could afford the new ASPH Super Elmar, but even if I could, I'd be too protective of it to take it anywhere interesting.

To those of you who have clean SA's, is it reasonable to expect anything from it approaching the clarity and 3-dimensional quality of my 35mm pre-ASPH Summicron? I read somewhere that the SA only really come alive around f11-16. True? It's hard to say with mine, as the haze makes everything flare and veil like crazy.
 
I've owned two SA's and neither were hazy. One had Schneideritis and the other was a newly recoated early chrome f/3.4. Both were fantastic optics. I used both of mine on digital Leicas as well and those cameras are quick to show the flaws of lenses. Neither SA ever performed badly.
As for when they come alive, any aperture works but I'd say f/5.6-f/11 are the best.
You're never going to get the kind of image you get from a 35mm Summicron from a Super Angulon though. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

Phil Forrest

philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com
 
BoBe
M6+21F4SA, Tri-X400
7467053300_cc7010cab4_c.jpg
 
For some reason I was under the impression that the SA 21/3.4 doesn't work on the M8 and M9. Looks like that was wrong.
 
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