robert blu
quiet photographer
Wow Raid, that's great! Even if I'm not involved in the sensor problem I find interesting the output of your conversation, Thanks
robert
robert
raid
Dad Photographer
I mentioned to him that not everybody lives in a large city where there is a Leica Boutique, and what can Leica users do after they send out a camera for repair to Germany to get a loaner/rent Leica. He told me that Leica has in place a system by which people get a rental unit. I wonder why we see people experience otherwise. Maybe this point needs to be further looked into. In your case, I would ask Leica (Germany) for a rental unit, Robert. Mention what Mr. Schopf has told me ... etc. I mentioned to him ... such as a Leica user from Italy ... 
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Good for you for taking the initiative to communicate, and good that Herr Schopf was open and willing to have the conversation.
I didn't find anything in your report of the conversation that wasn't already known via more standard channels, but it's always nice to have the CEO affirm the official press. Promotes confidence in the brand, and all that. And it's good to know that the upper management at Leica are indeed normal people who are capable of being accessible and humane.
Happy New Year!
G
I didn't find anything in your report of the conversation that wasn't already known via more standard channels, but it's always nice to have the CEO affirm the official press. Promotes confidence in the brand, and all that. And it's good to know that the upper management at Leica are indeed normal people who are capable of being accessible and humane.
Happy New Year!
G
raid
Dad Photographer
I did not know that Leica is actively developing a replacement glass cover for the CDC sensor, and that they were working on it throughout the Christmas season, Godfrey.
I also had no clue that the CEO is using a RF Leica.
I also had no clue that the CEO is using a RF Leica.
MCTuomey
Mentor
Thanks for your persistence and time, Raid. And thanks to Herr Schopf for taking time to talk with you as well.
OT: One of our members was vilified for reporting that the sensor glass problem was likely related in some way to an adhesive issue. I hope he takes some solace in Herr Schopf's remarks pertaining to same.
OT: One of our members was vilified for reporting that the sensor glass problem was likely related in some way to an adhesive issue. I hope he takes some solace in Herr Schopf's remarks pertaining to same.
raid
Dad Photographer
Mike, it did not take much persistence from me. It was one email and one phone call.
Yes, he said they were studying the adhesive issue, with emphasis on the corners.
Yes, he said they were studying the adhesive issue, with emphasis on the corners.
kudos to getting the scoop.
<tech journalists are now gnashing their teeth.>
<tech journalists are now gnashing their teeth.>
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I did not know that Leica is actively developing a replacement glass cover for the CDC sensor, and that they were working on it throughout the Christmas season, Godfrey.
I also had no clue that the CEO is using a RF Leica.
Raid,
The fact that they were working on a permanent solution to the CCD sensor cover glass problem was listed in their last official press release about the problem as I recall it, the same one that said they would be doing the fixes as they came up free of charge.
I didn't need to be told that they were working on the cover glass through the holidays—it's such a basic issue that I feel comfortable assuming that they are expending whatever resources are needed to get it taken care of ASAP. Leica is still selling a substantial number of CCD-based M cameras in the M-E and M Monochrom models, and have a large body of M9/M9-P users in the field. It would only make good business sense to put this issue to rest as soon as possible.
That the CEO is a Leica RF user is a nice sidebar and makes Herr Schopf more a part of the cameraderie, but it isn't actually relevant to anything business-wise as far as I'm concerned. I did know that, however, through other sources (another friend of mine has been pretty close to the Leica folks for many years).
There's no disparagement or dismissal meant of your making contact with him, and I enjoyed seeing your report of the conversation. "Business is personal" as they say.
G
raid
Dad Photographer
I acknowledged how well the CCD sensor in the M9 captures image details. I told him that when I take photos of sunsets at the beach, the M9 gives me something that reminds me of the times when I used to use Fujichrome 50 where the colors change gradually from deep red to orange to yellow to ... to purple in the sky.
raid
Dad Photographer
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Raid,
It's CCD, not CDC. "Charge-Coupled Device" is what it stands for, as opposed to "Complementary Metal-Oxide Semiconductor" for CMOS.
(CDC usually stands for "Center for Disease Control" ... ;-)
G
V-12
Well-known
So, what is it that we didn't know before, other than the Leica CEO is a 'cool guy'?
Of course he's a cool guy, he's not going to rip your head off is he? But at the same time we knew he was intent on responding to concerns amongst Leica users about the 'M9 issue'. So other than answering the basic question in the OP's mind that Leica is not trying to rip him off, a paranoid view never shared by most owners, we haven't actually discovered anything else.
V
Of course he's a cool guy, he's not going to rip your head off is he? But at the same time we knew he was intent on responding to concerns amongst Leica users about the 'M9 issue'. So other than answering the basic question in the OP's mind that Leica is not trying to rip him off, a paranoid view never shared by most owners, we haven't actually discovered anything else.
V
raid
Dad Photographer
Yes, you are right. It is a CCD sensor. maybe I was thinking of CDC because my research on cancer clusters often leads me to access their website.
raid
Dad Photographer
It was mostly to establish contact with the CEO so that we stay informed on the sensor issues. I never made claims to get solutions to anything at all with a call. I never claimed to feel I am ripped off by Leica. I support Leica.
ray*j*gun
Mentor
I apologize if this is a dumb question, but does Leica make their own sensors? I though they bought them from Sony or another Japanese firm. From reading the thread it sounds as if they do..... thanks!
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Leica does not have a chip fab ... very very few camera manufacturers do. They use (and have used) sensors from Kodak; whomever it is that Kodak sold the sensor business to for the M9/MM/M-E sensor; CMOSIS for the M typ 240 sensor; Sony for the X1, X2, X Vario, X typ 113, and T sensor; and most likely Sony or Panasonic for sensors in their other (consumer) camera lines.
As far as I'm aware, only Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, and Canon have chip fabs and make their own sensors of the manufacturers who produce complete camera systems. The rest buy their sensors from them or smaller, specialist chip manufacturers.
G
raid
Dad Photographer
They are working on the glass cover of the sensor and not on the sensor itself. They do not make the sensor, Ray.
The relevant info that was not 'known' or confirmed in the Leica press release:
- whether cameras purchased 2nd hand will be serviced for free. Nice to have this addressed explicitly...
- the additional technical details in Raid's paragraph #1; technical challenges of glue, sensor edge weather-proofing.
Thank you again.
jamais
Established
Sigma as well produces their (Foveon) sensors themselves.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Thanks! I was unaware that Sigma owned a chip fab. I wonder what else they make there.. A chip fab is such an expensive investment/operation it's hard to imagine them making just Foveon sensor chips!
...
Oh wait. A little research shows that Sigma acquired Foveon, Inc. They use the services of an independent chip manufacturer, Dongbuh (sp?) Electronics of Seoul, South Korea, to actually manufacture the Foveon sensors, same as Foveon did. Begs the same question: I wonder what else they make there..
G