B-9
Devin Bro
It is entirely subjective,
Ill be one of those old farts collecting cheap M8's in 2040
Maybe I could even afford a MM by then, haha.
Wishful thinking for ya...
Ill be one of those old farts collecting cheap M8's in 2040
Maybe I could even afford a MM by then, haha.
Wishful thinking for ya...
pepeguitarra
Well-known
gfspencer
gfspencer
I agree that the sensor wasn't the greatest but M8 allowed us to use our lenses for digital photography and that's why I keep my M8. So,no, the M8 will never become a "classic" in the sense that people are using them 20 years from now but it might become a classic like the old Apple Mac. The old Apple Mac is something that you keep and admire for being a "first" but not something that you use anymore.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
(1) I can't see anything wrong with the sensor in my M8.2. What do you have against it?
(2) I still get some use out of my Apple IIe. If you don't use your Mac, be sure to power it up every few weeks, to keep the power supply capacitors healthy.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I don't quite see the problem here either. It is still one of the best sensors out here, unless one is hoodwinked by the high-ISO marketing hype.
Range-rover
Mentor
I just received a Leica 3.5cm f3.5 Summaron lens I had to clean it out a bit,
and adjust the focusing for both lenses which was easy the pictures from that
lens is really nice smooth but sharp not in a modern way at all a classic for
sure.
and adjust the focusing for both lenses which was easy the pictures from that
lens is really nice smooth but sharp not in a modern way at all a classic for
sure.
raid
Dad Photographer
No digital camera becomes a classic,
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Well, give them time, Raid. I'd say the X100 could be a classic, and maybe the D300. Maybe I should start a thread on, "Nominate your pick for a digital classic."
RichC
Well-known
Whiskering...
I think you guys are forgotting that most circuit boards, and certainly those of expensive cameras (and phones), have been coated in very tough varnish that prevents corrosion, whiskering and the like. And electronics are pretty inert when not powered up.
Electronic devices are actually pretty long lived. I'd imagine all of us have something somehere with an ancient PCB that works fine. Off the top of my head, my 40-year-old Sinclair calculator and Texas Instruments LED watch from when I was a kid in the 1970s, stashed in my keepsakes drawer, which I bought batteries for a couple of years ago out of curiosity. Bits of my constantly used stereo date from the 1980s, and they're working perfectly...
Old doesn't = classic of course...!
I think you guys are forgotting that most circuit boards, and certainly those of expensive cameras (and phones), have been coated in very tough varnish that prevents corrosion, whiskering and the like. And electronics are pretty inert when not powered up.
Electronic devices are actually pretty long lived. I'd imagine all of us have something somehere with an ancient PCB that works fine. Off the top of my head, my 40-year-old Sinclair calculator and Texas Instruments LED watch from when I was a kid in the 1970s, stashed in my keepsakes drawer, which I bought batteries for a couple of years ago out of curiosity. Bits of my constantly used stereo date from the 1980s, and they're working perfectly...
Old doesn't = classic of course...!
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Raid might well be right, but I don't think I agree. I'd nominate the original 5D, and I think Rob-F's nominations of the D300 and (this one's only a perhaps) X100 might make the cut. I'd add in the D700 (I've never used one, but I've seen the photos and the love) and suspect it's a better candidate than the X100. I think the original MM might be one as well. (I'm not sure the M9 is, nor the M8 - I think both may well be regarded as significant but I'm not at all sure about "classic".)
With digital it might be a bit too early to tell, but I'd say the original Canon 5D, coming up to the 10 year anniversary of its release and still with many users, might be the 1st of a possibly more-or-less agreed set of digital classics.
...Mike
(Note: I think, so far, "digital years" might be like "dog years" - there's not necessarily a 1:1 correlation with calendar years.)
Benjamin Marks
Mentor
Someone once defined a "classic" camera as the first iteration of a new idea done well (e.g. the Leica IIIa) or a camera that does/did many things very well (e.g. the Speed Graphic). I don't think the M8 is in either caetgory, as much as I liked mine. I think that the rate of change in the digital photography industry over the last 15 years has been like the 50 years of lens design from 1860 to 1910. Huge improvements were made during this time, and some "classic" lines laid down, but most of the advances will be lost in the chatter. I don't think we will even be able to judge until the industry has achieved some technical stability. Sorry to be such a wet blanket.
Dektol Dan
Well-known
Watch vs. Print
Watch vs. Print
As technology advances in all fields, in arts and mass produced consumer items, history repeats itself.
A Rembrandt print doesn't bring as much as a painting, but some prints bring more than others. Etchings generally bring more than lithographs, but as other things, production run counts for something. A Leica M film camera isn't 'printed' as much as an M8, or any digital camera for that matter.
In art school I was taught that advancements in art were dictated by technology. For example, impressionism was born of paint packaged in a lead tube.
I feel comfortable collecting landmarks in technology, even if made for the consumer. Disregard by the public for the value of a mass produced item may eventually give it greater value in the future.
I am a proud collector of early digital cameras, I own two Apple Quicktakes.
I believe the M8 to be collectable, and I agree that the Canon 5D is a landmark camera. It was the first commercial digital camera many magazines would accept as producing a quality image up to standards otherwise reserved for film. Personally I like its handling of color, and I prefer it to the Mk II and Mk III. Sometimes it IS all about the image.
Watch vs. Print
As technology advances in all fields, in arts and mass produced consumer items, history repeats itself.
A Rembrandt print doesn't bring as much as a painting, but some prints bring more than others. Etchings generally bring more than lithographs, but as other things, production run counts for something. A Leica M film camera isn't 'printed' as much as an M8, or any digital camera for that matter.
In art school I was taught that advancements in art were dictated by technology. For example, impressionism was born of paint packaged in a lead tube.
I feel comfortable collecting landmarks in technology, even if made for the consumer. Disregard by the public for the value of a mass produced item may eventually give it greater value in the future.
I am a proud collector of early digital cameras, I own two Apple Quicktakes.
I believe the M8 to be collectable, and I agree that the Canon 5D is a landmark camera. It was the first commercial digital camera many magazines would accept as producing a quality image up to standards otherwise reserved for film. Personally I like its handling of color, and I prefer it to the Mk II and Mk III. Sometimes it IS all about the image.
tyrone.s
Well-known
Potentially, anything can become classic. However I suspect that if the M8 was to become a classic it would first have to go through a period where it's no longer regarded or thought of as anything other than old and obsolete. Prices will drop, people will either shelve them and forget them or pass them on their second, third, fourth ... owners. Then one day the specific qualities of the camera that make it old and obsolete will no longer make it irrelevant, but rather relevant, to a very small subset or subculture of people.
None of this has anything to do with practicability or the utility or the aesthetic values of (or of using) the camera. Certainly none of this has anything much to do with how much people today praise the qualities of the images the camera produces at this point in time.'Classic' is the crap-shoot of time.
I don't think the M8 can become 'classic' however without first going through this dip of value and regard first. And such slides into irrelevance will take some years, even for a digital camera - unfortunately for almost anyone who owns one now as a relatively expensive camera and might hope they have 'a classic'. Happy users that hold onto the M8 for the requisite years required for it to become a classic will find that they merely have an old example of the classic, but a user and not a mint classic.
Of course all this talks of 'classic' as an object or complete object that has somehow traveled through the years with all of the originality that made it highly desirable in the 'camera person' world (an overwhelmingly male place probably, but not exclusively), in the first place. If the camera merely takes beautiful pictures or unique pictures, then the images produced might be classic, but classic as an adjective would be somewhat misplaced with reference to taste regarding the specific sensor qualities of the images produced. In other words no one speaks of one flavor of cheese (unique and special) as being classic versus the cheese of some other place or process. That one type of cheese could taste 'better' than another is of course a personal preference.
None of this has anything to do with practicability or the utility or the aesthetic values of (or of using) the camera. Certainly none of this has anything much to do with how much people today praise the qualities of the images the camera produces at this point in time.'Classic' is the crap-shoot of time.
I don't think the M8 can become 'classic' however without first going through this dip of value and regard first. And such slides into irrelevance will take some years, even for a digital camera - unfortunately for almost anyone who owns one now as a relatively expensive camera and might hope they have 'a classic'. Happy users that hold onto the M8 for the requisite years required for it to become a classic will find that they merely have an old example of the classic, but a user and not a mint classic.
Of course all this talks of 'classic' as an object or complete object that has somehow traveled through the years with all of the originality that made it highly desirable in the 'camera person' world (an overwhelmingly male place probably, but not exclusively), in the first place. If the camera merely takes beautiful pictures or unique pictures, then the images produced might be classic, but classic as an adjective would be somewhat misplaced with reference to taste regarding the specific sensor qualities of the images produced. In other words no one speaks of one flavor of cheese (unique and special) as being classic versus the cheese of some other place or process. That one type of cheese could taste 'better' than another is of course a personal preference.
Range-rover
Mentor
I'm using my M8 for the last month and it took awhile to get use to the
rangefinder focusing again, but tonight I started getting into the Leica
grove coming home from work walking starting at 42st and times square
and ending at Grand central there's so much to see. This camera is going
to be a classic.
Range
rangefinder focusing again, but tonight I started getting into the Leica
grove coming home from work walking starting at 42st and times square
and ending at Grand central there's so much to see. This camera is going
to be a classic.
Range
AndyGarton
Member
Yes, 14 years on and it's my all time favourite digital camera.
gfspencer
gfspencer
My iPhone 11 has a better sensor but the three lenses aren't that hot. Besides, anyone (and everyone) can take a picture with a phone.
boojum
Mentor
I have an M8.2 that I have had for about a year. I point it at something, I frame it and press the shutter button. Often the photo is mechanically good, i. e., detail, tonality and so on. That's good. Do I prefer it over other cameras for image? Yes. I have a very old, 20+ years, Sony DSC-S70, with, I assume, a CCD sensor. Regardless it gives great images, and this is a camera that is way past it's double overtime. It should not even work! This thread has opinions that digital will not last that long. Perhaps Leicas will not but this old Sony is humming right along.
There is so much irrelevant and unsubstantiated conjecture in this thread about longevity, whether the camera will ever be a classic and so on. If you can control the future you can determine whether or not this camera will become a classic. And chat about how it is fragile. Best cameras made, Leica. Yeah. Regardless, while yours may be crap I am happy with mine, warts and all. If it breaks, fix it. If you cannot fix it get another. This is not rocket surgery. If I can figure it out I know most of this board, if not all, can, too.
Here is an image I have already posted. I defy anyone to tell me that the image was not well-prepared by the camera and lens. You may be unimpressed with the content, that's fine. But to complain that the image is faulty is off the mark in my opinion.
There is so much irrelevant and unsubstantiated conjecture in this thread about longevity, whether the camera will ever be a classic and so on. If you can control the future you can determine whether or not this camera will become a classic. And chat about how it is fragile. Best cameras made, Leica. Yeah. Regardless, while yours may be crap I am happy with mine, warts and all. If it breaks, fix it. If you cannot fix it get another. This is not rocket surgery. If I can figure it out I know most of this board, if not all, can, too.
Here is an image I have already posted. I defy anyone to tell me that the image was not well-prepared by the camera and lens. You may be unimpressed with the content, that's fine. But to complain that the image is faulty is off the mark in my opinion.
I would say that these early digital rangefinders (including the epsons) are classics. They are old by digital standards yet still command good money. In some cases lately, they have even gone up in price.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
A great shot, Boojum! As a tribute to the M8, it's a great example of "A picture is worth a thousand words."
I've had my M8 for 12 years now. I like it. I use it on "RAW" mode and convert to uncompressed DNG.
The M8 was crippled by Leica not understanding Digital Imaging and using a horrible compression scheme. The M8 was a learning experience for Leica, and probably saved the company from going under. One thing for sure: prices of Leica mount lenses have gone up greatly since the M8 was introduced.
The M8 was crippled by Leica not understanding Digital Imaging and using a horrible compression scheme. The M8 was a learning experience for Leica, and probably saved the company from going under. One thing for sure: prices of Leica mount lenses have gone up greatly since the M8 was introduced.