In Solidarity with Ukraine

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Mauro said:
Dear raydm6,
happy birthday to your mum from Italy! Has she ever visited again Minturno? Here in my small village near Milano some women from Minturno moved here several decades ago when they married local guys, and I know them. Conte is a common surname from minturno
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Hello, Mauro, thank you. Your village sounds very beautiful. Yes she went back in the 80’s I believe. We have cousins in the Scauri/Tremenzoli area nearby where she visited. I do not know any Conte’s. I will ask her tomorrow if she’s familiar with that family name.

Italy is beautiful. I visited once: Venice, Florence, Tuscany. I got very emotional going into the little churches in the piazzas and more so in the larger cathedrals. Just stunning. With all that beauty and peace, one wonders how we get to these violent situations. Be well.
 
mapgraphs said:
Ed,... linking to a 1970s agreement with an entity that ceased to exist after 1991, really? That's all you have to offer?

Guess what, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro and North Macedonia all made that 1970s agreement moot following the dissolution of the Russian Federation. So, since Putin didn't threaten to invade the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro and North Macedonia over NATO expansion, I would say that the whole NATO argument is nothing but a disinformation campaign to deflect attention away from the failing state of Russia.

Here...
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...pse-continues/

Yes, I think we're discussing religion... the faithful always give themselves dispensation ; - )
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I have wondered about Czech Republic, if they joined NATO.. bc I haven't heard any talk as much as I've listened to news around this invasion re: '68 Prague/Czech invasion. I've tried to be sort of a sponge for politics, last 10+ yrs... I believe lack of discourse in the states has led to disaster, ...dystopian present. Not for some though, of course.
 
mpaniagua said:
Agree about valdas and Larry. I think the most useful thing about this thread is to get us informed and to think beyong what is obvious. Thats to all for sharing in a civil and contructive way.
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The discourse has been very civil throughout 13 pages of postings, with people adding unique insights at times at odds with the conventional wisdom. The contrarian opinions have never been that contrarian and often construed in the wrong way.
 
valdas said:
Many things that you state were happening in Donbas is simply based on a Kremlin propaganda or lies or misinformation. Donbas is occupied by Russia. 14000 dead includes dead on all sides, 1/3 of those victims are Ukrainian soldiers. More than 3000 are civilians, killed by shelling by both sides in the war started by Russia. How is that Ukrainian fault?

on the language law. That is simply wrong. Read the law here: https://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/...REF(2019)036-e

So what you write is simply not true.

Have you been to Lviv? I was there, post Crimea occupation, I spoke Russian with locals (my Ukrainian is too poor), and I was fine. I suggest you go and see in person.

Proposed by Russia security agreements between NATO and Russia? Seriously? Restore pre-1997 NATO borders and remove all military and arms from Eastern Europe? So Russia can come whenever they want like they did in Prague in 1968 and Budapest? Seriously?
And I am sorry for my non intellectual style - English is only my fourth foreign language, so I find it difficult to express my ideas in a more fluent and eloquent way.
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Looks like person you replied to is stuffed with RT “facts”. At least. Where are many like him where I am.

Following this crowd logic Québécois are nazi, because they have suppressed English speaking population decades ago.
I meet several people who were moved with parents as kids to Ontario because their parents were refused by authorities and else in QC to give jobs, contracts if you are not speaking so called French. I personally met one English speaking person in QC, in 2003, who has to work for cash, because he was discriminated by Québécois as only English speaking.
And, yes, QC TV has a lot of French. They are not bothered to put bilingual municipal traffics signs either.

Ottawa should have bombed Montreal schools and hospitals because of it, according to RT logic followers.

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Bombing apartment buildings, child hospitals is not a solution. It is war crime. I met refuges from Iraq, their houses were bombed and thousands have died.
When you see how person like this talks, you now it is not RT “facts”.
Americans should be under international court for every bombing of civilians as well.
Did they paid reparations to Vietnam for burning everything with airstrikes?
Or to Japan for killing people and destroying of Nagasaki and Herosima?
If it will be still not, some maniacs will always have an excuse for doing the same, but under total supervision of those who are disagreeing.

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Here I could openly call bombing of civilians by USA as war crime. People in USA were protesting American war crimes in hundreds of thousands.
But in country which is bombing another country now, person with religious sign “do not kill” in front of the church was detained.
Every country which initiated the war is not winning. It is destroying itself.
I met very reasonable, normal people in, from France who were supportive of Soviet and Russia. Because they were against of USA military actions.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
“There is so much nonsense in this post - starting from factual inaccuracies and ending up with some pseudo- philosophical conclusions. I will not go through everything, but just want to point out that NATO actions in Serbia was not “pre-emptive”. It was to stop the genocide of Bosnian Muslims. This is well documented and some Serbian leaders serving life sentences for what they did. Putins claims about “genocide in Donbas” is a pure fiction.
Restoration of Pushkin and Tolstoy Russia? Seriously? The big Empire with a lot of oppressed nations? Give Finland, Baltics, Polish nations to Russia, prohibit local languages, instate Moscow Governors everywhere? Because this was Tolstoy and Pushkin Russia.
In Finland we have a legitimate concern about Russias imperial nationalism. We do not feel safe. How is it less legitimate? We want Russia to be disarmed completely, otherwise we reserve the right to nuke Moscow. Seems reasonable? Not to me, but this is exactly what Putin is doing from Russia perspective. How the concern of a big country ir more legitimate than the one of small country?

Valdas”

I feel an urge to ask ,”which were the factual inaccuracies” as opposed to differences of opinion
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As usual, with gaslighters, there are hurt feelings from mean words - and obfuscation. In the lines that follow, there are attempts to equate Ukrainian actions with the ethnic cleansing of Bosnian Muslims - primarily on the basis of a Ukrainian language law. This is obscene. There is a Ukrainian far right, and there is the extremist Azov Battalion, but there are no independent reports of ethnic cleansing of Russian speakers which remotely resemble that of Srebrenica. None. The claim is sheer whataboutery. I note it's not unusual. The last leader of my political party was one of many who saw the massacre of Bosnian Muslims as Nato's fault.

The only aspect of such posts which is positive is their very existence; because the existence of such posts in Putin's regime would likely result in the poster's dismissal from their job, if they worked in the state sector or similar.

Every Putin apologist's post is more evidence of a freedom of expression denied to Russians and which is now denied to those in occupied Ukraine.
 
Paul T. said:
As usual, with gaslighters, there are hurt feelings from mean words - and obfuscation...The only aspect of such posts which is positive is their very existence; because the existence of such posts in Putin's regime would likely result in the poster's dismissal from their job, if they worked in the state sector or similar. Every Putin apologist's post is more evidence of a freedom of expression denied to Russians and which is now denied to those in occupied Ukraine.
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Sadly, the pernicious spirit of cancelation is become too pervasive in the West, where a conference by the non-profit Space Foundation named after Yuri Gagarin, was re-named all because he was Russian.
 
Eh, they renamed an annual fundraising event. I can imagine concern in their part about potential backlash for a fundraiser named to celebrate a Russian achievement at the moment.

It’s a no win situation for the non profit. Keep the event and raise less money/deal with backlash, rename it and be mocked for political correctness.

The whole topic is a distraction from actual important events.
 
The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

In the meantime, average Ukrainians are seeing their world methodically and mercilessly obliterated whilst Russian mothers are likewise mourning the loss of their beloved sons for no particularly meaningful reason aside from the ego of a master charlatan. There are other silent hands at work in this mess, whose identities, motivations and actions may not be revealed for decades.

By year's end, we may see 20 million Ukrainian refugees who will likely never see their homeland again.
 
What do you think about the boycott of companies that further decided to keep the business , paying taxes supporting the war machine of Russia?

I, as a consumer, have begun to avoid these companies' products.
 
raid said:
So is life.I have been living in the USA for over 40 years now, and it seems that it has never been this bad. What has happened?
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The consensus seems to be that Russia has been deliberately provoking that situation through financing multiple "bad actors" in the media and through the use of worryingly large "troll farms" leaving comments and posts all across the internet, planting the seeds of what can only be described as insanity. Now it's reached the point where it's hard to tell the difference between satire, Russian trolls, and misled Americans.

The second comment on that "Gateway Pundit" link is a good example of this:

Ukraine is the Nazi Soros's home base

Ukraine is/was the Deep State money laundering and pedo capitol

Ukraine has been run by neo-nazis since Dear Leader Odummy and the corrupt CIA financed a coup in 2014

Don't believe it, FOLLOW pedo Joe's millions of $$$$ !
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20 years ago, I'd have assumed something that bizarre was written by either a satirist or someone on day release from a lunatic asylum. Now comments like that are ten-a-penny and it's impossible to know the intent or origin of them.
 
Coldkennels said:
The consensus seems to be that Russia has been deliberately provoking that situation through financing multiple "bad actors" in the media and through the use of worryingly large "troll farms" leaving comments and posts all across the internet, planting the seeds of what can only be described as insanity. Now it's reached the point where it's hard to tell the difference between satire, Russian trolls, and misled Americans.

The second comment on that "Gateway Pundit" link is a good example of this:



20 years ago, I'd have assumed something that bizarre was written by either a satirist or someone on day release from a lunatic asylum. Now comments like that are ten-a-penny and it's impossible to know the intent or origin of them.
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I agree. At first, I thought I was reading The Onion.
 
Rick Waldroup said:
This is a joke, right?
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The joke? Your political comments are serious???
You do such a fine job internalizing and summarizing the wisdom of our Age's guiding lights & scholars in residence, Trevor Noah, Steven Colbert and John Oliver.

Lara Logan? A well-known and respected journalist sexually assaulted (perhaps raped) in Cairo by the kindly sorts of the fascist Muslim Brotherhood during the 'Arab Spring', whom His Eminence BH Obama felt worthy of a deep embrace.

Want a real parody?
John Kerry, Minister Plenipotentiary for Global Warming is worried about the emissions from the invasion and “ hope(s) that President Putin will help us stay on track with respect to what we need to do for the climate.”
 
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