I've been told unofficially that Leica is out of the M8 / 8.2 sensors and will not be getting more.
Apparently what is being done instead is the Leica importer in that country offering the customer a credit upgrade towards a current production Monochrome or ME or M240 - or sometimes a refurbished M9 if they are available.
The amount of the credit and towards what camera seems to be dependent upon what you can negotiate with your national importer.
If anyone has additional details, please share.
Stephen
Apparently what is being done instead is the Leica importer in that country offering the customer a credit upgrade towards a current production Monochrome or ME or M240 - or sometimes a refurbished M9 if they are available.
The amount of the credit and towards what camera seems to be dependent upon what you can negotiate with your national importer.
If anyone has additional details, please share.
Stephen
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
That's a shame if it's factual seeing as the M8 is such a solidly built camera. To be consigned to the junk pile due to non sensor availability after seven (?) years is a travesty for those who really like the camera and would continue to use it in preference to the full frame option.
Black
Photographer.
Leica long since assigned the M8 and M8.2 to the rubbish bin, when they stopped including it on their site and ceased with the firmware updates (the last one was some candy assed support for a lens and "minor tweaks" (read: absolutely nothing else)).
I have no faith in Leica's dedication to their customer base, only in their dedication to making a profit. The two can and should go hand in hand.
I've had both an M8 and M8.2. Both wonderful cameras in their own rights, so I feel sorry for those who have been pretty much left abandoned by Leica. They are no longer a camera for a lifetime.
Well done, Leica
I have no faith in Leica's dedication to their customer base, only in their dedication to making a profit. The two can and should go hand in hand.
I've had both an M8 and M8.2. Both wonderful cameras in their own rights, so I feel sorry for those who have been pretty much left abandoned by Leica. They are no longer a camera for a lifetime.
Well done, Leica
slidesandthecity
Established
I agree.
This applies to all digital cameras doesn't it?
But what about the MP? A (black)chrome MP should look good and work well for a long time.
Black
Photographer.
Of course, but it is one of the tag lines that Leica likes to use. I have no doubt that this is specifically in reference to their film bodies, but for all that money you would expect a little better, wouldn't you?
Expect the same abandonment with the M9 parts and support sometime soon.
jschrader
Well-known
after dreamnig of an MM for one and a half years, I more or less decided that as an amateur I cannot afford it for the time I can expect it to work.
I have an acceptable workflow now with b&w film home development & film scanning. I rather invest into printing than into the resolution of an 18 MPix sensor.
But I am happy about the results; I will need to learn about scanning and photoshop, so the is still room for improvements ;-)
I have an acceptable workflow now with b&w film home development & film scanning. I rather invest into printing than into the resolution of an 18 MPix sensor.
But I am happy about the results; I will need to learn about scanning and photoshop, so the is still room for improvements ;-)
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I guess Leica are no different from any digital camera manufacturer ... they keep trying to convince us they are though so this little gem of news won't go down well with many of their loyal customers.
pete hogan
Well-known
The digital world is a wonder, but it is also a little cruel.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Ansel
Well-known
This is the digital dilema. All digital cameras only have a very short life. Do not expect to see working M240s in 20 or 30 years time.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
True ... but it's still a damned shame that there is a fine digital rangefinder out there that a lot of people are perfectly happy with that you can now no longer get a sensor for ... or an LCD for that matter!
steviegy
Member
I fill a bit depressed, my first M8 has literally arrived as I'm reading this post.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
zuiko85
Mentor
I don't think Leica's intention is 'malevolent', just the nature of the digital beast. That of course is cold confort to those M8/8.2 owners who are left high and dry.
The real test here is what Leica is offering in exchange for a unrepairable body. If it is just a token credit, say 20 precent of the price of a new replacement ME then I'd say they really just don't care whether they lose that customer or not. The real irony is that the savings of a couple of thousand dollars would be offset by a greater loss of sales due to bad press.
Company reputations can have real monetary value. But once lost can have a real drag on the bottom line.
One more thought. Re., what credit is given toward a replacement M. This should be a stated policy of Leica and backed by them, not dependant on any inporter 'negotiated' settlement. Leica needs to get ahead of the curve here and state openly what they intend to do for their customers.
The real test here is what Leica is offering in exchange for a unrepairable body. If it is just a token credit, say 20 precent of the price of a new replacement ME then I'd say they really just don't care whether they lose that customer or not. The real irony is that the savings of a couple of thousand dollars would be offset by a greater loss of sales due to bad press.
Company reputations can have real monetary value. But once lost can have a real drag on the bottom line.
One more thought. Re., what credit is given toward a replacement M. This should be a stated policy of Leica and backed by them, not dependant on any inporter 'negotiated' settlement. Leica needs to get ahead of the curve here and state openly what they intend to do for their customers.
hellomikmik
Well-known
Good news IMO for future buyers (prices maybe going down?). Realistically, how many of us got sensor in M8 out of warranty replaced for reasonable price by Leica?
Bobfrance
Over Exposed
Being poor and underprivileged I recently bought a Canon 5D Mk1 second-hand which subsequently suffered a detached mirror. It was sent to Canon who upgraded the whole mirror assembly free of charge because it was a known issue. Pretty impressive given the age of the camera and the fact I certainly wasn't the original owner.
Incidentally I used to own an M8 (when they were £££££s) but sold it and all my lenses because I found I liked everything about medium format film better. It's just so damn sexy.
.
Spicy
Well-known
this.
profits, profits, profits...
if they were dedicated to sticking to the old "yes, leicas are damned expensive, but you are buying a camera that someday your child's kid could use" philosophy, they could do it. a modular system that simply swapped out the sensor would likely not be too hard to engineer. in the modern age, Apple has learned that all you have to do to impress consumers is build something a little bit heavier and more robust than to fall apart before it becomes obsolete (read: 2 product generations; possibly less if you force "upgrades" via software bloat). leica could do something similar, and it would make sense -- there is really no point engineering and enforcing strict quality control for bodies that can undergo "decades of use" when the useful lifetime is really only 8 years or so, it's just wasting money.
this is why "Leica (digital)" and "Leica" should be treated as separate entities, as there is very little "Leica" about the company and its modern, badge-engineered contraptions. they've built themselves into a comfortable niche, but unfortunately it will shrink and profits will rise and it will shrink and profits will rise and it will shrink and profits will rise and it will shrink and *POOF* you no longer have a market because you were stupid and greedy and shortsighted and now you're SOOL.
corporations have long since learned that it's not a profitable business model to create products that will continue to compete with your sales for a lifetime's worth of customers. such is the case with any company whose chief product has ceased to be quality and has become "lifestyle." better is to bilk customers and entice them with offers of trade-in discounts -- these should not be a significant percentage of a company's profits, and yet the fact that Leica has the gall to ask customers to drop another 2-4k to "trade-up" is simply appalling.
bonatto
looking out
Thought an interesting development, it is not at all surprising given the nature of the gear in question.
Epson still offers full service for some of its later models, but not the original R-D1 apparently.
There was a recent thread mentioning over 2kUS for an M9 sensor replacement.
It's a model that has ousted many working photographers who simply cannot justify this cost structure. It's also a model that has been working for Leica as they reach out to those with deeper pockets and an interest in photography.
I can't think of a niche, high end manufacturer, who has not shifted to similar marketing and product development strategies.
Meanwhile Fuji and others have dug in to the middle ground and offered comparatively better value with their hybrid and compact camera systems.
Though I can certainly understand the concern of those who currently own and M8 and those interested in a second hand body, the potential costs of service/upgrade to a more recent system are hardly a mistery.
The fact that Leica offers an upgrade program is a middle ground approach, and a fair one in my view. I would not expect them to stock obsolete and expensive electronic parts manufactured by a third party for 10 years.
Epson still offers full service for some of its later models, but not the original R-D1 apparently.
There was a recent thread mentioning over 2kUS for an M9 sensor replacement.
It's a model that has ousted many working photographers who simply cannot justify this cost structure. It's also a model that has been working for Leica as they reach out to those with deeper pockets and an interest in photography.
I can't think of a niche, high end manufacturer, who has not shifted to similar marketing and product development strategies.
Meanwhile Fuji and others have dug in to the middle ground and offered comparatively better value with their hybrid and compact camera systems.
Though I can certainly understand the concern of those who currently own and M8 and those interested in a second hand body, the potential costs of service/upgrade to a more recent system are hardly a mistery.
The fact that Leica offers an upgrade program is a middle ground approach, and a fair one in my view. I would not expect them to stock obsolete and expensive electronic parts manufactured by a third party for 10 years.
Black
Photographer.
Roger,
I don't "delight" in any such thing. "Malevolent fantasises"? Erm, no. Please see my original post. I am only providing documented evidence of Leica's bad character regarding their apathy when it comes to their previous digital generation and their customer base.
Also, further to this, please see Bob's example of the polar opposite end of customer service with Canon:
When Leica offer service that matches this, especially given that Canon are still doing this for the best price in the world (gratis), then come back to me and we'll discuss who is "delighting" in "malevolent fantasies" then.
Cheers,
C.
jarski
Mentor
recon dark clouds have been gathering on horizon, for M9 as well regarding its Kodak-designed sensor.
the "delight" on the other hand is just Leica-hate that surfaces here every now and then.