MP 240 or Monochrom 246? Buyer's remorse I guess...

My $0.02 as another random stranger on the Internet :)

Two options I'd consider if I were in your shoes, in my order of preference:

1) IF you're happy with the M246 otherwise and genuinely love B&W, and you feel the Monochrom is providing a tangible benefit in output: stick with it, and maybe buy yourself a secondary option for color. Doesn't have to be another M. Something fixed lens like an X100 model or a Ricoh GR as mentioned above would be my suggestion also, assuming it works for your style of shooting. If the only problem is you don't like not having the *option* of color, that may scratch the itch for you.

2) On the other hand... if at the end of the day you're not actually *enjoying* being limited to B&W, or getting great output from the Monochrom you feel is worth it... trade it in and get an M240. Put the extra left over away for a rainy day, buy yourself a new lens or whatever. IMO, I don't think the output is going to be dramatically better on the M246 over the 240 for most use cases (high ISO shooting for example).

Good luck with your decision either way!
 
Richard G said:
Agree with those who say stick with it and add an X100. I went to France with the Ur-Monochrom (liking that term) and an X100 and was completely happy with the combination.
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Certainly an option. It would just depend on whether the OP would enjoy the Fuji shooting experience, and carrying two cameras.

The Fuji is nice but the M240 is closer to the 246 in BW than the Fuji is to the 240 in color. The 240 is arguably the best color digital camera you can buy, if you don't need AF etc, outside MF.

Oh wait I forgot...the best except M9 ;)
 
I would find a cheaper color option and not sell the LM246. You had me looking into the LM246 last night...because I didn't know they came out with a new model. I've always wanted the monochrom but wow oh wow, the new models looks amazing! Aside from it's quirks, the image tonality and low light control looks great!

I think going with a x100 model of any kind, would be good enough. It's only just to get scratch that itch of wanting to shoot color...

For me at times I have an itch to shoot digitally... only thing I have is an EOS M with some adapter mounts for my lenses I currently own, and it does the job. Problem solved!
 
Considering the investment you've made in the Leica 246 + the Summicron, stick with it for at least a year. Others have mentioned the Fuji X-100T and the Ricoh GR as color cameras but I suggest you have a look at the Epson R-D1s or x, instead. It's a digital rangefinder camera with which you can use your Summicron and a camera with a distinct signature output. Some RRF members based in Japan may lead you to a mint reasonably priced body.

Happy Holidays! Peter
 
Get rid of the Mono...
Get a 240...
Unless you shoot a ream of B&W...
Then just get a cheap color cam...A7 or similar to put your M lenses on..
My take is..I would rather have a color cam and convert..
And if I wanted to shoot B&W serious..shoot film instead..
Recently I just decided to shoot LF in B&W..specifically 8x10 with 100 year old lenses..
Cant beat the look and feel of that..no need for a 7K mono..
 
SixSeven,

I'm primarily a B&W shooter. It's the way I see. However, the ability to shoot color makes a camera very flexible. Think birthday parties, social events, etc. I sincerely think the Monochrom is too specialized a tool for the average single-camera owner.

Without getting into arguments and the technical minutiae of an MM sensor over a standard color sensor, I think about it from an end-result point of view. I can make very good B&W prints from my M9, or my Ricoh GR, or my X-T1, or my 5DmkII...you get the picture. BUT...the MM makes absolutely LOUSY color photos!

When you get a print made on paper, you're going to lose lots of dynamic range...period. That is why I never bought into the Monochrom hype. As a Leica, yeah, it's more collectible and "special," because it's so specialized. But an M240 is going to shoot great color, and convert to great B&W. It's a skill like any...experiment.

As you probably know, just simply printing an image straight from the MM sucks. It needs post processing. And once you add some contrast, you're throwing away dynamic range. Some will insist that you need to start out with my dynamic range in any case, but to them I'd point out the decades of great B&W work that has been published starting with contrasty, grainy film. I won't even mention the ability to make a B&W image using a choice of different color filters after the fact, instead of baking in a filter look at shutter press with whatever filter you choose (and you're stuck with) on an MM.

So now, I've probably offended MM owners. I'm sorry about that. It's not my intention to convince anyone they've made the WRONG decision. It's my intention to convince the OP that you can make great B&W with a color sensor, and you've always got the ability to print color or B&W. Same argument that's been used for shooting RAW instead of jpg in every instance, by the way.

So...my advice to you, SixSeven, is to trade the MM for an M240, and never look back. Enjoy the B&W, enjoy the color, enjoy the Live View flexibility if you ever need it, and be thankful you don't have to shoot a dSLR to get that.
 
The only real benefit of the MM's is to eliminate the choice of B&W or color. There is a hugely understated advantage to eliminating that choice in your post production. I like to have a 2nd shooter at my weddings shooting with a Mono because I don't have to later choose which images should be black and white, I suddenly have an abundance of beautiful monochrome images to choose from. I spend next to no time converting, and more time fine tuning the mono images (they do require a lot of work).

However, it's almost completely bunk that there is any magic in the MM files by themselves. Maybe a little more detail than a color image but my color images are already pretty freaking sharp. What's more you still have to uprez the same way for large prints and you still see the same artifacts that come from that. The tonal structure is different possibly but not better or worse.

Having a mono is a great luxury, but having only a mono will lead you to where you are now. Get a used 240, prosper.
 
If you want to shoot color, then follow it... it just further opens up your creativity.

IMHO - get the 240. Don't wait. You can have both color and BW at your disposal... the time waiting can be best spent shooting color (or BW since you will also have that option with a 240).

Regards.
 
ferider said:
That's all good and true, Mike, and you know I respect your opinion.

But if the OP wants to shoot color and cann't, IMHO, he doesn't need a long time of self-chastizing to figure out that his original plan had a gap. Life is too short.

My "bias by preference": I like to shoot B+W landscapes, too. But sometimes, color is a must. And in particular for B+W landscapes: starting from a color original and adding a red/yellow/orange/green filter in post is a huge plus of the digital medium, I feel.

Roland.
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Quite right, Roland. Time should not be wasted. Fwiw, my approach is same as yours (M240 and convert/run in-camera jpgs), because as much as I like MM files I need color too. Didn't mean to slight all the good suggestions, only wanted to emphasize individual needs.
 
SaveKodak said:
However, it's almost completely bunk that there is any magic in the MM files by themselves. Maybe a little more detail than a color image but my color images are already pretty freaking sharp. What's more you still have to uprez the same way for large prints and you still see the same artifacts that come from that. The tonal structure is different possibly but not better or worse.
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WOW. This thread has turned very interesting. :)
 
When it comes to the Monochrom, I'd say that it certainly offers something unique. Whether you think that uniqueness is worth it, that differs from person to person. That said...I think it is just cool that it exists. If I was B&W only, I'd find it appealing.
 
jsrockit said:
When it comes to the Monochrom, I'd say that it certainly offers something unique. Whether you think that uniqueness is worth it, that differs from person to person. That said...I think it is just cool that it exists. If I was B&W only, I'd find it appealing.
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John,

The Monochrom offers a lot more than a little more resolution and detail, how about 30% more resolution because it has no Bayer Filter Array. To one poster 30% is just a little which I find amusing.

Also with no Bayer Filter Array there is no need for added sharpening like in a color camera. In my rather large prints I add no sharpening and just use the default in LR5.

You know I'm a lazy slacker, and I find it really interesting that someone is saying that I have to do lots of post processing when I don't, and that filters are not my friends. LOL.

While my Monochrom the "Clunker" can't do color the fact is that it does B&W exceptionally well. Big prints don't lie, and you can't print whats not there.

Not for everyone, will not do color, but for B&W only it is the way to go.

Cal
 
Calzone said:
John,
The Monochrom offers a lot more than a little more resolution and detail, how about 30% more resolution because it has no Bayer Filter Array. To one poster 30% is just a little which I find amusing.
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Right, but pure resolution isn't necessarily what people care about always. That's my point... it is unique, but to some not in the way that they care about. Regarding post processing... that is a personal choice. I actually enjoy it, so I always try to make the file different than straight out of the camera. Sometimes it's not about a perfect histogram but about putting a particular signature into the photo. You do this via filters and your printing technique. Others do it via post processing. I would imagine there is more than one way to do this stuff. I don't use a Monochrom though either, so I can't speak to that.
 
SixSeven said:
About a month ago I bought a Monochrom 246. Sold basically every piece of photography equipment I own to get it and a 50 summicron. The majority of everything I've shot over the years (a little of everything, but mostly landscape) has been black and white, so it seemed like a good fit with the 246. The goal was to get an "as close as it gets" digital replacement for a Mamiya 7 loaded with b&w film, which I adored but hated the scanning process to make prints (I'm not a wet printer).

Now that I have the 246, the only thing I can think of is shooting in color. It's like a curse. I totally wasn't expecting that. It's compounded by the fact that this is my main and only body. I thought about getting an a7rII or something for color use, but it just doesn't make sense. I could (just) afford the Leica, but I'm not made of money so shelling another 3k+ out is not an option.

So, I'm left with a choice: grin and bear it with the MM246 and not shoot color for quite a while until adding another body some time in the distant future, or return the 246 and get the MP240. I get it, it's kind of a juvenile dilemma to be in, but I'm really on the fence as to what I should do. Opinions of random strangers on the internet are welcome!

Nick
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Patience is a virtue that every photographer must exercise. You have just bought a camera that shoots B&W only, so learn more about b&w photography, read Ansel Adams' trilogy: The Camera, The Negative and The Print, learn the zone system, learn how to use a spot meter, learn how to make quality prints with a decent tonal range and get acquainted with other MM users and see their work and get inspired.
 
Keep the MM, buy a used Sony A7 and a Leica M adapter. Try it out for color. If you find yourself wanting to shoot more and more color, sell the MM and A7 and get the 240.
 
I would stick with the 246 for at least one year.

JMHO.......


If you need to shot color, then

borrow a camera from a friend
rent
buy something used, digital (M8, M9, MP240....) or film (lots of Leica, Zeiss, or Voigtlander rangefinder camera options) for color
save up for new MP 240


Good luck with your decision.
 
Pioneer said:
My sincere advice is for you to grit your teeth and go to work with the new Monochrom. Use it hard for at least 6 months and create the best black and white prints that you can with it. That camera is capable of producing some awesome photos if you work with it. But, if at the end of 6 months, you still need color in your life then sell it and buy a 240 or 262. Leica may even have something even newer by that time.

Just don't make any decisions while everything is so new. You have put a lot of thought, not to mention money, into this. Give it time. I really do believe it will work out for you.
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I second this, there is no better digital camera to shoot B&W , and only by making an effort to learn good file processing technique and to print images one can appreciate the camera .I would probably invest in some low contrast lens to match the body etc.
 
SixSeven said:
Buyer's remorse I guess... [coming from a] Mamiya 7 loaded with b&w film

The majority of everything I've shot over the years (a little of everything, but mostly landscape) has been black and white... Now that I have the 246, the only thing I can think of is shooting in color.
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You might consider for a moment that it is only a sensing of buyer's remorse... maybe it's not a question of B&W vs. Color, maybe it's moving from something comfortable (the Mamiya 7) to the unfamiliar (Leica), maybe it's the 50 summicron, maybe it's moving from 6x7 to a sensor size of 35.8mm x 23.9mm, maybe it's a change in subject matter due to a smaller camera, or maybe it's the change in post processing...

For what ever reason, the change has [possibly] become a tipping point of sorts...

While I would encourage you to follow your heart, the logic would be to uncover the reason you changed in the first place and the possible reasons you might be [at the moment] ill-at-ease...

In the mean time, you could dive into uncovering for yourself the potential of the monochrom ; )
 
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