paul in AZ
Member
Looking at these and wondering which to buy. I have quit digital altogether and still shoot a relatively low volume of film. Mostly medium format with TLRs,. I also have a couple of Nikon 35mm SLRs that I use less frequently. Now thinking of adding a Nikon rangefinder.
For a user camera which would be the better choice? I like the idea of an S2 w/black dial or an S3. The S3 is a bit newer and pricier. Does it have enough improvements to justify any cost difference? Have prices of these been driven up by collectors or putting it another way, are these considered "collectible" or will they be? Here I'm looking at my TLR Rolleiflex that I wouldn't buy at today's prices.
Normal lenses for these are marked as either 5cm. or 50mm. Are these different vintages? Any image quality differences?
Are there any glaring faults unique to Nikon RFs that I should look for in addition to the usual things with old equipment?
For a user camera which would be the better choice? I like the idea of an S2 w/black dial or an S3. The S3 is a bit newer and pricier. Does it have enough improvements to justify any cost difference? Have prices of these been driven up by collectors or putting it another way, are these considered "collectible" or will they be? Here I'm looking at my TLR Rolleiflex that I wouldn't buy at today's prices.
Normal lenses for these are marked as either 5cm. or 50mm. Are these different vintages? Any image quality differences?
Are there any glaring faults unique to Nikon RFs that I should look for in addition to the usual things with old equipment?
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
The S2 has the brighter and simpler viewfinder. The S3 adds brightlines for 35mm and 105mm lenses, and has parallax tick marks to indicate close focus correction. The S3 also has a better shutter speed dial, automatic film counter, and self timer. Prices are pretty stable, unlike everything else. Most people choose the S2.
5cm refers to the two most popular lenses of the Nikon RF system, the 5cm f/1.4 and 5cm f/2 Sonnars. They are very compact and offer good performance, except a bit hazy wide open. Nearly everybody is using these.
50mm refers to the later 50mm f/1.4 "Olympic" (produced before the 1964 Tokyo Olympics) and "Millennium" (produced in 2000-2002 as part of a reissue kit). They're identical except for coatings. They're larger, rare, and expensive.
Unfortunately, many people refer to the 5cm lenses as 50mm, so just be careful when reading about these lenses online.
There are no faults to the Nikon RFs, they are literally perfect
welcome to the Nikon RF subforum. Just kidding, they are mechanically really reliable but the viewfinders are not as good as the equivalent Leicas. They also don't have a lot of lens options compared to the Leica system. If you can accept those realities, you will find them to be wonderful cameras.
5cm refers to the two most popular lenses of the Nikon RF system, the 5cm f/1.4 and 5cm f/2 Sonnars. They are very compact and offer good performance, except a bit hazy wide open. Nearly everybody is using these.
50mm refers to the later 50mm f/1.4 "Olympic" (produced before the 1964 Tokyo Olympics) and "Millennium" (produced in 2000-2002 as part of a reissue kit). They're identical except for coatings. They're larger, rare, and expensive.
Unfortunately, many people refer to the 5cm lenses as 50mm, so just be careful when reading about these lenses online.
There are no faults to the Nikon RFs, they are literally perfect
welcome to the Nikon RF subforum. Just kidding, they are mechanically really reliable but the viewfinders are not as good as the equivalent Leicas. They also don't have a lot of lens options compared to the Leica system. If you can accept those realities, you will find them to be wonderful cameras.
Erik van Straten
Mentor
I'm also a fan of the S2. I only use 50mm and 35mm lenses, so I have a Nikon 35mm brightline finder for when I use a 35. I would choose a chrome dial if I was you. They certainly have a more solid feel above the black dial. I think they are better made.
It is great to use Zeiss lenses on the S2. I have a near mint prewar 50mm f1.5 Sonnar in nickel and black that works fine on the S2.
The S2 has only one frame in the viewfinder, 50mm. There is no parallax-correction. There is no need for this correction because the viewfinder is very close to the optical axis of the lenses.
A fantastic lens on the S2 is the S Skopar 50mm f2.5, the sharpest lens for the S2 I've seen, very compact too.
silver gelatin print (s skopar 50mm f2.5) nikon s2
Erik.
It is great to use Zeiss lenses on the S2. I have a near mint prewar 50mm f1.5 Sonnar in nickel and black that works fine on the S2.
The S2 has only one frame in the viewfinder, 50mm. There is no parallax-correction. There is no need for this correction because the viewfinder is very close to the optical axis of the lenses.
A fantastic lens on the S2 is the S Skopar 50mm f2.5, the sharpest lens for the S2 I've seen, very compact too.
silver gelatin print (s skopar 50mm f2.5) nikon s2
Erik.
If you plan to use 50mm lenses only- get the S2. Cost less and the S3 finder flares much more than the S2 finder.
If you plan on using an assortment of lenses, get an SP. The finder does not have the flare problems of the S3, and has framelines for 50/85/105 and 135. The 2nd finder has frames for the 28 and 35.
The S3: If you where glasses, the 50mm framelines are easier to see.
If you plan on using an assortment of lenses, get an SP. The finder does not have the flare problems of the S3, and has framelines for 50/85/105 and 135. The 2nd finder has frames for the 28 and 35.
The S3: If you where glasses, the 50mm framelines are easier to see.
FloridaGhostPhoto
Established
Why choose? Get both! I have an S2 and and an S3 in my backpack right now. The S2 has the 5cm f1.4 lens and is currently loaded with Fujicolor 200. The S3 has the 3.5cm f2.5 and is loaded with Foma 100. I also have the fantastic 10.5cm f2.5 in the bag. The S2 is a fantastic freaking camera, and I think the best pictures I've ever taken were on this camera. But I also really like the 35mm focal length and I'm not a fan of external viewfinders, so the S3 is fantastic for the other two focal lengths. Between these two cameras and three lenses, all of my daily shooting needs are covered.
If I could only choose one, I'd have to go with the S3 just because of the framelines. This said, the viewfinder is somewhat inferior to that of the S2...the rangerfinder patch is a little more dim and the framelines gunk things up a bit. But I like the versatility.
On the other hand, the S2 is more price-friendly. If budgeting is an issue (it is for me...sheesh, my wife is a CPA and it's hell to embezzle camera funds from the grocery budget unnoticed, haha) the S2 is a little less expensive.
So, I guess the choice is decided by your use-case: if money is important and you really, really dig the 50mm focal length, it's the S2 all the way. If you want more focal lengths and dislike external finders, it's the S3. I just love these old Nikons...they're my favorites.
If I could only choose one, I'd have to go with the S3 just because of the framelines. This said, the viewfinder is somewhat inferior to that of the S2...the rangerfinder patch is a little more dim and the framelines gunk things up a bit. But I like the versatility.
On the other hand, the S2 is more price-friendly. If budgeting is an issue (it is for me...sheesh, my wife is a CPA and it's hell to embezzle camera funds from the grocery budget unnoticed, haha) the S2 is a little less expensive.
So, I guess the choice is decided by your use-case: if money is important and you really, really dig the 50mm focal length, it's the S2 all the way. If you want more focal lengths and dislike external finders, it's the S3. I just love these old Nikons...they're my favorites.
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/services/ad/291
There is a Nikon S4 in the Ads now, at about 1/4th the price they used to sell for.
No 3.5cm framelines, just use the whole frame. Manually reset counter, no lugs for the motor drive. Framelines for the 50 and 105.
If you where glasses- the 50 frames are easier to see.
Somehow I ended up with two of these, good users.
There is a Nikon S4 in the Ads now, at about 1/4th the price they used to sell for.
No 3.5cm framelines, just use the whole frame. Manually reset counter, no lugs for the motor drive. Framelines for the 50 and 105.
If you where glasses- the 50 frames are easier to see.
Somehow I ended up with two of these, good users.
steveyork
Well-known
In my limited experience in owning half dozen Nikon rangefinders (S2, S3), the weak part, as compared to a Leica, is the viewfinder. Although the 1.0x mag viewfinder is glorious, and something every rangefinder aficionado needs to try at least once, the contrast of the rangefinder patches are very inconsistent, ranging from average to poor. Often camera specific. The best, in general, are the S2, but the viewfinder limited to 50mm field of view and the viewfinder rim can scratch glasses pretty bad. The rangefinder contrast on the S3 is probably the most faint (by design, it's not tinted) and eye position is critical. Love how the Nikon Rangefinders are light, compact, not terribly expensive, with that high mag. viewfinder, but definitely look through the viewfinder first or make sure you return privileges. It's one of those things that can bother you a lot, or not much. There are some tricks out there to increase the contrast.
All things being equal, S2 for 50mm, S3 for 35mm.
My Nikon rangefinders didn't survive the Great Camera Selloff of 2018, but it was an instructive experience to use them for a couple years.
Maybe there's an SP in my future ...
All things being equal, S2 for 50mm, S3 for 35mm.
My Nikon rangefinders didn't survive the Great Camera Selloff of 2018, but it was an instructive experience to use them for a couple years.
Maybe there's an SP in my future ...
Erik van Straten
Mentor
Try to get a black one!
Erik.
Erik.
ranger9
Well-known
I take it you guys don't mind the S2's lift-and-turn shutter speed dial, but it drove me crazy and was the reason I sold my S2 after only a couple of months.
On the S2: at 1/1000th second the shutter speed dial stays slightly lifted after turning. This is normal.
Of all my Nikon RF's, the SP is the favorite.
Of all my Nikon RF's, the SP is the favorite.
Erik van Straten
Mentor
ranger9
Well-known
Your understanding is correct! I've never owned a Wetzlar cuckoo clock (aka Barnack, aka screw-mount Leica) because of that dratted dial (plus squinty viewfinder) and at one point I also gave up a really nice Canon IVSb3 for the same reasons. Call me eccentric, but I like to be able to change shutter speeds without looking.
BTW, going back to recommendations for the OP, the Nikon S4 sounds like a good option for somebody who mostly uses normal and portrait lenses and wants something simpler/cheaper than an SP, but wants a modern shutter speed dial. I can remember when the S4 used to be expensive because it was rare in the US (supposedly because EPOI didn't want to import an "economy" model) but Da Innernet has fixed that now...
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Perhaps I’m misreading the above, but the S2 does have an automatic frame counter - the inner dial rotates as film is wound.
The S3’s shutter dial is like a Nikon F. I suppose that’s reason enough for most Nikon fans to like it. The self-timer is a bonus and certainly was an advantage in the days of slower films.
The S2’s shutter speed dial and slow-speed subselector is like that of a Barnack Leica (also the same on a Topcon R-II). I personally enjoy having the slow-speed subselector. Perhaps I’m weird in that I like extra dials and levers to play with. That’s why I like the additional focusing ring on the Hasselblad 50/4 CF FLE to adjust the floating element.
I chose the S2 over the S4 specifically because I knew the additional frame lines provided by that clever frame selector would tempt me into buying a full set of lenses. This way, I have the 50/1.4 and I’m done.
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
Sorry, I mean the frame counter automatically resets each time you load the camera. The counter on the S2 has to be manually set each time you load the camera. This was a notable upgrade of the SP and S3.
ZivcoPhoto
Well-known
Very nice Erik, mine is just a few numbers later than yours- 6171004, a Chrome Model S2, one of the last before the black dials. I have had it for 20 years and I was fortunate to have the late and great Pete Smith do a CLA on the camera. Though I do own SP and five film Leicas, this camera is most pleasant to use and the most reliable.
Erik van Straten
Mentor
Thank you, Zivco, I really like the S2, much more than the other Nikon rangefinders. It is such a clever camera, combining the best elements from the first Contaxes and Leicas and improve on them.
Erik.
gelatin silver print (sonnar 50mm f1.5 nickel uncoated) nikon s2
Erik.
gelatin silver print (sonnar 50mm f1.5 nickel uncoated) nikon s2
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I have owned the S2, S3, S4 and SP. The ones I liked the best always were the S3 and the S4. The S3 because of the frame lines (useful lenses) and the S4 because of its simplicity. I used to like my S2, but the fact that only had 5cm frame lines and a funky shutter speed dial always drove me to desperation. Besides, there's the thing that you cannot change shutter speeds once the shutter has been cocked... So, I am happy with the other camera bodies and recommend them warmly.
BTW, the S4 on sale is mine.
BTW, the S4 on sale is mine.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
As with the Barnack Leica, on the S2 you need to advance the film and cock the shutter before setting the shutter speed (so that the indicated speed aligns with the index properly). So, you definitely can (and are supposed to) choose a shutter speed after cocking the shutter.
ranger9
Well-known
I thought that on the S2 (but not on Barnacks) you could set speeds either before or after cocking, because the setting index (little black arrowhead) is on the center hub of the dial and rotates along with it when the shutter is released. But I only owned my S2 for a couple of months, and that was a long time ago, so I could be mistaken! What's the real scoop?
James24
Well-known
Consider an S3 2000. You get all the advantages of the S3 with, what should be a clearer rangefinder patch. Plus you get a newer camera in likely better order. Used ones can be found more easily now, with or without the excellent 50mm lens it was packaged with.