JonathanCh
Newbie
So I've had a Ricoh GR1v for some time (borrowed it from a friend of mine) and now I'm thinking about getting one. I love the camera, its size, lens, feels and I especially like that I have a physical switch to control flash so I don't need to enter some strange menu.
I've been carrying it everywhere with me the past week and I can't say one bad thing about it apart from the fear that I have when shooting it. I read online that these cameras just stop working so I'm always worried about the camera dying.
Therefore I did some further research and got interested in the Fuji klasse w. The lenses are quite similar and they are also pretty much equally expensive. Only thing I couldn't really figure out is if the fuji camera remembers which flash-mode I had put in after I turn it off. Do I have to set the mode again after switching the camera off?
Now I wanted to ask you guys if you'd recommend me the Ricoh or the Fuji? As I still am a student I can't really "afford" getting one Ricoh after another when they break on me, that's pretty much the only thing that is holding me back from buying one.
I will also add a poll to this thread to have clear numbers on your opinions.
Thank you in advance!
I've been carrying it everywhere with me the past week and I can't say one bad thing about it apart from the fear that I have when shooting it. I read online that these cameras just stop working so I'm always worried about the camera dying.
Therefore I did some further research and got interested in the Fuji klasse w. The lenses are quite similar and they are also pretty much equally expensive. Only thing I couldn't really figure out is if the fuji camera remembers which flash-mode I had put in after I turn it off. Do I have to set the mode again after switching the camera off?
Now I wanted to ask you guys if you'd recommend me the Ricoh or the Fuji? As I still am a student I can't really "afford" getting one Ricoh after another when they break on me, that's pretty much the only thing that is holding me back from buying one.
I will also add a poll to this thread to have clear numbers on your opinions.
Thank you in advance!
Muju79
http://muju.tumblr.com/
Neither.
Prices are up to the roof for the w (if you can find one...) and it's not worth the asking price, however good the lens may be.
The GR1 series is expensive as well and famous for its unreliability of electronic parts (Moriyama himself said in an interview that he could never get more than a handful of hundreds of rolls though one before it died on him...and this was several years ago, now they're much older).
In my opinion and experience, if you want a good compact with a great 28mm lens look for the Olympus XA4 or get any barnack body and a Color-Skopar 28/3.5.
Good luck!
Prices are up to the roof for the w (if you can find one...) and it's not worth the asking price, however good the lens may be.
The GR1 series is expensive as well and famous for its unreliability of electronic parts (Moriyama himself said in an interview that he could never get more than a handful of hundreds of rolls though one before it died on him...and this was several years ago, now they're much older).
In my opinion and experience, if you want a good compact with a great 28mm lens look for the Olympus XA4 or get any barnack body and a Color-Skopar 28/3.5.
Good luck!
lonemantis
Well-known
As someone who just recently bought, then immediately returned a GR1 for the LCD failure problem, I would strongly caution against investing a lot of money in any high-end point & shoot. All of them are completely un-repairable at this point, and it's a matter of how much money you're willing to lose when it dies.
If you really want something compact and electronic, I'd suggest trying to find some of the less well-known lower end compacts for less money. For example, I've been quite happy with my Minolta AF-C, which has program autoexposure, autofocus, and no auto flash. If it dies, I'm only out $80. Either that, or a good-quality mechanical camera that will be serviceable in the long-term. An Olympus 35 RC is very portable camera with autoexposure and mechanical reliability that can often still be found for under $100.
If you really want something compact and electronic, I'd suggest trying to find some of the less well-known lower end compacts for less money. For example, I've been quite happy with my Minolta AF-C, which has program autoexposure, autofocus, and no auto flash. If it dies, I'm only out $80. Either that, or a good-quality mechanical camera that will be serviceable in the long-term. An Olympus 35 RC is very portable camera with autoexposure and mechanical reliability that can often still be found for under $100.
JonathanCh
Newbie
But a barnack Leica wouldn't be nearly as pocketable as the point and shoots I was thinking about. Also, I'd need an external light-meter. Further I would also need an external viewfinder as these cameras don't usually have 28mm framelines built in, another point making this setup larger in size.
Yes you'll need an external finder and a Barnack Leica isn't as compact as a Ricoh or Klasse, but its far sexier. And the LTM Skopar 28/3.5 is a much better lens than the lens in the GR1/s/v (pin cushion distortion
!) and Klasse W. As for the external meter, don't bother with one. Learn how to meter by eye and install a meter app on your phone for tough lighting situations. Metering by eye isn't hard.
Come to think of it, don't bother with an external finder either. If you shoot enough, you'll soon learn how much a 28mm lens fits in the frame
Out to Lunch
Menteur
I suppose you did your research and found that the average asking price for a Klasse W is USD 1,000.- Way too much money if you ask me. An equally overpriced alternative is the Minolta TC-1.
Out to Lunch
Menteur
A review of the Minolta TC-1 here: https://www.35mmc.com/27/09/2014/minolta-tc-1-eccentric-beauty/
Archlich
Well-known
The Klasse W has many features and good lens, but control is not intuitive and the real-image finder is on the smaller side - I'd save the word "squinty" just for the Leica Minilux and CM. It also feels like a somewhat delicate gadget (although not as delicate as the TC-1) with its smooth metal finish. Yes it would remember your flash setting, which is unlike the original Klasse, but at the current going price I'd say skip it.
It's not the best time investing into a luxury P&S camera now as all prices had been on steady rise in the past 2 years. The Contaxes and Leicas are affected the most, followed the Fuji and Minolta. Nikon, Ricoh and Konica Hexar have seen price hikes as well, but not that much. So pick one out of the later bunch if you must.
I have used every single camera in the class. I'd say if you have to pick one, the GR1s is the best bang for the buck. It has the necessary improvements over the original GR1 (i.e. the ability to pre-extend the lens barrel once you are at the Snap mode, thus minimizing focus lag) to live up to the fabled name of the true street machine, yet is not as hyped (price wise) as the GR1v. The ergonomics simply is the best, the aspherical lens is uber. Personally I feel the crinkle paint finish over magnesium alloy shell inspires confidence - you are aware that it's just a tool, not a titanium-clad, scratch prone piece of investment. Few of these die completely, but few retain a fully healthy LCD display either. Repair is available but can be costly if you're not in East Asia. So Pick your sample wisely. Don't worry about the bleed too much, but don't overpay either.
It's not the best time investing into a luxury P&S camera now as all prices had been on steady rise in the past 2 years. The Contaxes and Leicas are affected the most, followed the Fuji and Minolta. Nikon, Ricoh and Konica Hexar have seen price hikes as well, but not that much. So pick one out of the later bunch if you must.
I have used every single camera in the class. I'd say if you have to pick one, the GR1s is the best bang for the buck. It has the necessary improvements over the original GR1 (i.e. the ability to pre-extend the lens barrel once you are at the Snap mode, thus minimizing focus lag) to live up to the fabled name of the true street machine, yet is not as hyped (price wise) as the GR1v. The ergonomics simply is the best, the aspherical lens is uber. Personally I feel the crinkle paint finish over magnesium alloy shell inspires confidence - you are aware that it's just a tool, not a titanium-clad, scratch prone piece of investment. Few of these die completely, but few retain a fully healthy LCD display either. Repair is available but can be costly if you're not in East Asia. So Pick your sample wisely. Don't worry about the bleed too much, but don't overpay either.
rangefinderlove123
Established
As others have said, neither. They cannot be repaired anymore even if some shops might have OEM parts, they've gone bad by now... ask me how I know.
You (as in you JonathanCh) are right and wrong in your thinking and here's how:
Yes these cameras will fit in pocket, but the buttons might get pushed when inside your pocket and activate the camera, erect the lens whilst in it,, release the shutter etc... again ask me how I know. I damaged a contax t3 by stashing it in a jacket pocket, this was back when they were "cheap".
Also pockets will in general have grit in them, perfect stuff to ruin the internals of your "pocket" camera, wanna know how I know?
Therefore they necessitate the use of a belt camera pouch/case of some sort, the same kind of case that would accommodate a barnack.
Get a barnack.
You (as in you JonathanCh) are right and wrong in your thinking and here's how:
Yes these cameras will fit in pocket, but the buttons might get pushed when inside your pocket and activate the camera, erect the lens whilst in it,, release the shutter etc... again ask me how I know. I damaged a contax t3 by stashing it in a jacket pocket, this was back when they were "cheap".
Also pockets will in general have grit in them, perfect stuff to ruin the internals of your "pocket" camera, wanna know how I know?
Therefore they necessitate the use of a belt camera pouch/case of some sort, the same kind of case that would accommodate a barnack.
Get a barnack.
JonathanCh
Newbie
I just can't see myself manually exposing a scene. I feel like it would take me too long and after some time I'm sure that I would loose the joy in shooting. I want to work quick and "capture the moment" as it happens. Manually focusing/zone focusing is fine for me but I don't think that manual exposure is for me, if that makes sense.
And learning to meter by eye just seems like an impossible task to me. Sure, there are "guidelines" such as the sunny-16-rule and so on but still.
benlees
Well-known
If you can live without the 28mm, other Klasse cameras are much more affordable. And they are still being made? Not sure... Either way, much more recent vintage than the Ricohs.
I had a GR1 and currently have a GR10. Really bad auto focus! But the lens...
I had a GR1 and currently have a GR10. Really bad auto focus! But the lens...
Have you checked Klasse prices lately? They have skyrocketed
A lot of money to pay for a fragile camera that will likely die if you drop it and that is not being made anymore (yes, the Klasse S and W were discontinued several years ago, and the Klasse S predecessor (original Klasse) is long discontinued - 2001?).
I didn't mind paying 30,000 yen or so for a Klasse S or W back 4 or 5 years ago, but they're waaaay overpriced now. Even the original Klasse is going for silly money.
craygc
Well-known
I bought a Klasse W when they first came out and I've found it a fantastic camera that has produced many great shots for me; however, as others have mentioned here, I don't think I would pay the current prices if there was ever a need to replace it. Before I had the Klasse W I used a Bessa T & the VC 28mm 3.5 + finder as my carry everywhere camera. I carried this combination everyday over 2003/4 while working in Beijing and it was a great combination (besides the loud shutter).
gavinlg
Mentor
I'd personally get a Nikon FG or EM with a series E 28mm f2.8 lens instead for 1/3 the money. If you had to get a Point and shoot, I'd go the Klasse. The GR series cameras are finnicky and built like junk (fantastic lenses though).
benlees
Well-known
Have you checked Klasse prices lately? They have skyrocketed
A lot of money to pay for a fragile camera that will likely die if you drop it and that is not being made anymore (yes, the Klasse S and W were discontinued several years ago, and the Klasse S predecessor (original Klasse) is long discontinued - 2001?).
I didn't mind paying 30,000 yen or so for a Klasse S or W back 4 or 5 years ago, but they're waaaay overpriced now. Even the original Klasse is going for silly money.
Didn't realize the prices had gone so silly. I thought about getting a Klasse S a couple years a go. $300US was too much for me back then!
aizan
Mentor
the fuji tiara ii/cardia mini/dl super mini has a 28mm f/3.5 lens, and it'll only cost about $250-350.
Dralowid
Michael
The GR1 is a very special camera, I had one from new for five years with no problems. Having said that I guess it has broken by now. Avoid, in fact I'd avoid any old electronics and go back to a ltm Leica.
NaChase
Well-known
Agreed. The TC-1 I bought broke after one roll of film. Fortunately, I was able to get my money back.
Waus
Well-known
I would avoid both; way too expensive and way too risky...There's a cheaper alternative: the Nikon AF600, which also has a 28mm lens. Not as many options as the Ricoh and/or Fuji-but you should be able to find these unde €100...
Guy Pinhas
Well-known
My theory is that P&S cameras are kinda like a good comfy pair of sneakers: They do what they do for a few years (if you are lucky) and you toss ‘em as they “break" and can’t be repaired. A fully or semi mechanical camera such as a Leica, Olympus etc is like a pair of good leather boots: You take care of them and they will go on and on and can be repaired. Same can be said of an iron skillet vs a non stick teflon pan. Pal of mine just got his great grandmother’s skillet. Gorgeous black patina with years of cooking left on it. Teflon pan? like a P&S or a pair of sneakers: Limited lifespan.
My point and shoot for a while was a Leica CL with a 21mm f4 CV set at infinity. Great combo that gave me tons of great images when hanging out with friends and family. The meter of the CL is very good and thought me so much. The only limitation was that the f4 lens was a daytime/well lit insides only thing as I didn’t shoot with flash.
Sure, it didn’t fit in my coat pocket like a Yashica T4 or an Espio or and MJU, and yes I did have to pay attention to my shutter speed and aperture but after a while, you ‘get it’ and it (sunny 16) becomes a walk in the park. Granted I shot/shoot B&W film and it is very forgiving if you are off by a stop or two, but being a stop or two off mark won’t ruin a color image me think. Or maybe it will. I don’t have much experience with color film so I can’t really say.
Anyways, you get idea. If you are still hell bent on a point and shoot then scour the forums, local classified, thrift stores, yard sales etc for a good deal. So many great models out there that can be had for 150-200 bucks if you are patient: MJU2, Yashica T4, Espio Mini, Niko AF600, Fuji DL Mini, Canon Prima Mini and many more I am sure.
I would also like to mention, that at the prices that the Klasse or GR’s are going for these days, you can find yourself an Olympus OM4 with a 28mm f2.8 lens with plenty of money left for film to last you a long long loooooooong time. No outside viewfinder needed either!
My point and shoot for a while was a Leica CL with a 21mm f4 CV set at infinity. Great combo that gave me tons of great images when hanging out with friends and family. The meter of the CL is very good and thought me so much. The only limitation was that the f4 lens was a daytime/well lit insides only thing as I didn’t shoot with flash.
Sure, it didn’t fit in my coat pocket like a Yashica T4 or an Espio or and MJU, and yes I did have to pay attention to my shutter speed and aperture but after a while, you ‘get it’ and it (sunny 16) becomes a walk in the park. Granted I shot/shoot B&W film and it is very forgiving if you are off by a stop or two, but being a stop or two off mark won’t ruin a color image me think. Or maybe it will. I don’t have much experience with color film so I can’t really say.
Anyways, you get idea. If you are still hell bent on a point and shoot then scour the forums, local classified, thrift stores, yard sales etc for a good deal. So many great models out there that can be had for 150-200 bucks if you are patient: MJU2, Yashica T4, Espio Mini, Niko AF600, Fuji DL Mini, Canon Prima Mini and many more I am sure.
I would also like to mention, that at the prices that the Klasse or GR’s are going for these days, you can find yourself an Olympus OM4 with a 28mm f2.8 lens with plenty of money left for film to last you a long long loooooooong time. No outside viewfinder needed either!