urban_alchemist
Well-known
So, I'm heading back to Blighty for a week; that's a week to choose my new small-carry-everywhere camera. As it's crunch-time, I've really got to choose...
Ricoh:
Pros - Small, interchangeable units, large-sensors (big!), fast prime 50, interface... love Ricoh.
Cons - No 28 APSC yet, slow autofocus, no video, no IS.
GF1:
Pros - Small, 20mm pancake, video, M-adaptor, fast AF, cheap.
Cons - HORRIBLE interface, small(er) sensor.
G2:
Pros: As above, swivel LCD.
Cons - HORRIBLE interface, small(er) sensor, size
So, with all that out of the way, there's an obvious winner. It's... the...
Sod it, I'm going to bed...:bang:
Ricoh:
Pros - Small, interchangeable units, large-sensors (big!), fast prime 50, interface... love Ricoh.
Cons - No 28 APSC yet, slow autofocus, no video, no IS.
GF1:
Pros - Small, 20mm pancake, video, M-adaptor, fast AF, cheap.
Cons - HORRIBLE interface, small(er) sensor.
G2:
Pros: As above, swivel LCD.
Cons - HORRIBLE interface, small(er) sensor, size
So, with all that out of the way, there's an obvious winner. It's... the...
Sod it, I'm going to bed...:bang:
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Anything but the G2, which is ugly.
Just get a Pany G1/20 for now and save your money for a generation or two down the pike. I don't think any of the current larger sensor compacts beat the G1 in any significant way and the price/value can't be beat. The price of the Ricoh is ridiculous in spite of the wonderful GR interface; the G2 isn't much better than the G1 other than video; and the GF1 is novel but it is almost too tiny for grown-ups and the G1-G2 EVF is so much more useful in real life.
I do think that once CaNikSony get on the bandwagon we'll see some real competition and some great options in quality small digital cameras. It's clear from the Ricoh reviews that compact APS will offer better quality than micro 4/3s all things being equal.
I do think that once CaNikSony get on the bandwagon we'll see some real competition and some great options in quality small digital cameras. It's clear from the Ricoh reviews that compact APS will offer better quality than micro 4/3s all things being equal.
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Renzsu
Well-known
What's wrong with the Olympus ones? E_PL1 is cheap as well and seems to have great color and ISO performance.
This is silly. I'm 6'2" tall with large hands and I don't find it too tiny.
DrLeoB
Shoot a IIIc "K" !!!
I had a GRX but didn't like it and gave it to my son for his carry around... Now have two G1's as working cameras and one GF1 as the carry anywhere ... working out to be a very good arrangement.
BillBingham2
Registered User
The GRX has a much longer life expectancy as you can swap out the sensor as new and better ones come out.
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
Finder
-
I would get that in writing from Ricoh just in case the camera does not sell well.
biomed
Mentor
GF1, 20/1.7, CV 40mm VF. The G1 is a less expensive choice with more bulk (with excellent EVF). No IS in either with the 20/1.7 lens, but I have never needed IS with the 20 -- my rangefinders have never needed IS. Do check the Oly bodies, you may like them.
Finder
-
Biomed, how to you like the 3:2 framing of the CV 40mm viewfinder with your lens/camera?
andrewteee
Established
Gxr
Gxr
I have the GXR/A12 and I have the Olympus E-P2/Panasonic 20mm. Both are great cameras, but ultimately this is where I've landed - I prefer the GXR in most situations. When I want to focus, no pun intended, on more serious work I take the GXR, or I take it when I want the best pictures possible from a compact camera. I take the Olympus when I need faster AF, primarily for family snapshots, although I'm getting better at having the GXR work for me when I need fast shots.
The IQ of GXR/A12 files is simply phenomenal. I use it primarily for B&W work where its dynamic range is very nice to work with, and there is a certain look to the files that I cannot adequately describe, a kind of beautifulness. Color is very good too! For now I use RAW Developer to develop RAW files.
To be sure, the GXR is not perfect, but it is compact, lightweight, quiet, very easy (and fun) to use, easy to grip, and takes fantastic pictures. For now, you are limited to the 50mm focal length (don't bother with the S10 unit), but next up is the 28mm A12 (can't wait for that one!). To me, the Ricoh cameras are very quick to adjust on the fly and configure shot by shot.
That said, the E-P2 with the 20/1.7 is also a great setup with its own sort of beautifulness. I really like it too, and sometimes I just want to shoot with with it for its beautifulness (I also like the Olympus JPGs).
Take a look at my photo blog for some GXR samples. There are also E-P2/20mm samples as well (and lately a lot of iPhone samples!).
Gxr
I have the GXR/A12 and I have the Olympus E-P2/Panasonic 20mm. Both are great cameras, but ultimately this is where I've landed - I prefer the GXR in most situations. When I want to focus, no pun intended, on more serious work I take the GXR, or I take it when I want the best pictures possible from a compact camera. I take the Olympus when I need faster AF, primarily for family snapshots, although I'm getting better at having the GXR work for me when I need fast shots.
The IQ of GXR/A12 files is simply phenomenal. I use it primarily for B&W work where its dynamic range is very nice to work with, and there is a certain look to the files that I cannot adequately describe, a kind of beautifulness. Color is very good too! For now I use RAW Developer to develop RAW files.
To be sure, the GXR is not perfect, but it is compact, lightweight, quiet, very easy (and fun) to use, easy to grip, and takes fantastic pictures. For now, you are limited to the 50mm focal length (don't bother with the S10 unit), but next up is the 28mm A12 (can't wait for that one!). To me, the Ricoh cameras are very quick to adjust on the fly and configure shot by shot.
That said, the E-P2 with the 20/1.7 is also a great setup with its own sort of beautifulness. I really like it too, and sometimes I just want to shoot with with it for its beautifulness (I also like the Olympus JPGs).
Take a look at my photo blog for some GXR samples. There are also E-P2/20mm samples as well (and lately a lot of iPhone samples!).
aizan
Mentor
the gxr would be my first choice because of the image quality. the ergonomics and build quality are also the best. the interchangeable lens units are somewhat discouraging, though. at least they're only making one new aps-c unit a year! 
biomed
Mentor
I am using a borrowed CV 40mm finder. The framing works fine - accessory viewfinders are not precise framing tools. I first used the CV 35 finder (as seen in my avatar) and found it to be adequate for use with the 20/1.7. I have't made up my mind whether to buy a 40mm finder or not. I do like using the GF1 in AP mode with an optical VF.
Finder
-
Thanks.
I am using the Olympus 17mm finder (35mm AoV equiv.) with my cv 21mm lens and it is easy to judge the framing. I am wondering if it is worth going to the cv 40 vf. I, too, enjoy using m4/3 cameras with a viewfinder.
DougFord
on the good foot
[FONT="]Among the choices given, I think the excellent DR and over all IQ of the A12 unit would prompt me to choose the Ricoh, even with the current limitations of the Ricoh system in mind.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Perfect the use of the 50mm-e lens until the 28mm-e becomes available.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other two choices are ‘complete’ system offerings so you’re trading the very high DR/IQ of the A12 for the versatility currently provided by the others. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Or you could wait until Nikon/Sony/Canon reveal their APSc EVIL products.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The idea of a compact Sony APSc EVIL camera with a set of lenses designed by Zeiss has me firmly sitting on the fence for a while.[/FONT]
[FONT="]One thing’s for certain, as these new products are announced, it ain’t gonna make the decision any easier.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Maybe it’s [/FONT][FONT="]inny meeny minny mo time?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Perfect the use of the 50mm-e lens until the 28mm-e becomes available.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other two choices are ‘complete’ system offerings so you’re trading the very high DR/IQ of the A12 for the versatility currently provided by the others. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Or you could wait until Nikon/Sony/Canon reveal their APSc EVIL products.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The idea of a compact Sony APSc EVIL camera with a set of lenses designed by Zeiss has me firmly sitting on the fence for a while.[/FONT]
[FONT="]One thing’s for certain, as these new products are announced, it ain’t gonna make the decision any easier.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Maybe it’s [/FONT][FONT="]inny meeny minny mo time?
[/FONT]
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
A BIG +1 on this ^
However, of the choices I voted for G2. G1/G2 has great ergos, the articulated LCD and the EVF. Those three things are no-brainer hands-down winners over the GF1, EP1/2. Go with the G1/G2 (preferably the G1).
Edit: Disagree about the "horrible interface" on the Panasonics.
/
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chrisso
Established
Well I agree with that.
Just looking at Panasonic, I'm already confused as to the various feature sets, pros and cons between the G1, G2, GH1 and G10.
I'm also heading to the UK in about a month.
I guess I could send my wishlist to Robert White and see which model they recommend.
historicist
Well-known
Samsung NX-10!
The GXR is probably better, but way more expensive - I prefer to spend my money on film cameras - and the 50mm lens is very deep. Not sure what the latest firmware is like, but when I tried it there was severe tearing in the EVF and a really annoying freezing of the image while focussing. Pity, becaise the body design feels really, really good.
The Samsung looks a bit chintzy in photos, but not so bad in the flesh - it's no EP-1, but I don't feel like I have to wear a paper bag over my head while I am using it.
And the 30mm lens is really very, very good (the kit lens isn't really, and no smaller than equivalent canon or nikon lenses).
But mainly it's the price - by the time you have got an optical or electronic viewfinder on a GF1 or EP plus the 20mm f1.7 you'll have paid at least two hundred pounds more than the NX-10 and 30mm.
The GXR is probably better, but way more expensive - I prefer to spend my money on film cameras - and the 50mm lens is very deep. Not sure what the latest firmware is like, but when I tried it there was severe tearing in the EVF and a really annoying freezing of the image while focussing. Pity, becaise the body design feels really, really good.
The Samsung looks a bit chintzy in photos, but not so bad in the flesh - it's no EP-1, but I don't feel like I have to wear a paper bag over my head while I am using it.
And the 30mm lens is really very, very good (the kit lens isn't really, and no smaller than equivalent canon or nikon lenses).
But mainly it's the price - by the time you have got an optical or electronic viewfinder on a GF1 or EP plus the 20mm f1.7 you'll have paid at least two hundred pounds more than the NX-10 and 30mm.
Neare
Well-known
Take a look at the E-P2. Its sensor colour rendition is far better than the G series plus the EVF is amongst, if not, the best. Stick the panny's 20mm pancake on it afterward if you're after AF.
biomed
Mentor
I agree with you to a degree, the GF1 is the most pocketable of the Panasonics (with the 20) IMO. I used a G1 a few weeks ago and liked its ergonomics. I ordered one last week and am awaiting delivery this coming Monday.
I used a GF1 and a Canon DSLR to shoot a wedding a couple of weeks ago. The DSLR was used for the flash shots and the GF1 for available light shots. All of the outdorr shots were taken wih the GF1. What a joy of a camera to use!
I think it is great to get input from others about different cameras. My advice to friends who ask for recommendations for what camera to buy is to make a list of features you want, decide what the cost limit is and then go look at the models that fit those parameters. My main point is not to buy a camera without holding it in your hands first. The GF1 fit my requirements of compactness and RAW image recording. It was the best choice for me. I found I really like the MFT system cameras. I am predicting that the 20/1.7 will live on my GF1 and the G1 will be used with zoom lenses (14 - 45 and perhaps a 45 - 200). Yes, I did look at the digital Pens. Very nice cameras, but they didn't fit my hands as well.
So, urban alchemist, I wish you luck with your camera quest. I hope whichever one you decide on works well for you.
Mike