Ricoh GRX, GF1 or G2?!?!

Ricoh GRX, GF1 or G2?!?!

  • Ricoh GRX

    Votes: 68 39.3%

  • Panasonic GF1 (20mm)

    Votes: 81 46.8%

  • Panasonic G2 (20mm)

    Votes: 24 13.9%
  • Total voters
    173
Thanks all for your feedback and advice - and for not making my decision even the slightest bit easier!!! ;)

Pretty much everyone's views tallied with my own in one shape or another: it is very unusual for me to see no obvious leader...

So let me (for myself) try and answer some criticisms/advice:

1. Ricoh: Yes, it is a first generation camera, but uniquely, the camera is the cheapest link. While the lense/sensor units are expensive, when the second gen unit comes out (higher res LCD? Smaller?), it will be relatively cheap to upgrade. From what I've seen (not least on Andrew's blog), the Ricoh's images are noticably superior to the Panis'...


2. Panasonic GF1/G2/G1: They're really not bad. Image quality is good; size is good; price is VERY good, BUT... I know I'm going to get shot down, but I don't understand the UI of the G-series. It's VERY good by digital camera standards, but compared to the Ricoh it is clunky, cumbersome and counter-intuitive. I bought my fiance's mother a G1, and nearly cracked my head against a wall trying to work out what button did what, lead to what... And in answer to the Olympus people: the Pen UI made the Panasonic seem like heaven...

Keep the opinions coming. At the moment, i'm leaning towards the Ricoh... that 50 + (future) 28mm combo may be enough to make me rest easy about the system's future...
 
Well... I did it. Thank you Len and Barry @ R G Lewis. I went in there, and found myself very surprised. First: The shortlist turned out to be between the Ricoh GXR and Leica X1. I was quite impressed with the Leica - it is a lovely product, generally great UI (like the rotational shutter-speed/aperture), menus as comfortable as old shoes (coming from M8/M9), and frankly astonishing IQ.

But there were some deal-breakers. First: very slow AF. This was obvious in the Ricoh too, but instead of a lovely rotational dial around the lense for manual-focus (like the RIcoh), the X1 used a horrid thumb-dial at the rear of the camera. Now in a fixed-lense camera, this makes no sense, especially as the space is used by... a horrid lump of plastic.

And then the second: the price.

Yes, I know the Ricoh is expensive - substantially more than the Panasonics, but it is a system camera. I walked out of the shop with the GXR, the EVF, 50 APS-C macro, 24-72 macro unit, extra battery and the folding lense-cap, and it cost LESS than the X1. When the 28mm APS-C unit is launched, I will be able to have a full system camera covering nearly all lense-lengths for the same price as what is, in-effect, a closed, 35mm camera.

Anyway, I'll write a few words when I've played with it a bit more, but Ricoh GXR it is. And a lovely little camera it seems too...
 
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What do you think of the EVF?

What do you think of the EVF?

How is the EVF?

urban_alchemist said:
Well... I did it. Thank you Len and Barry @ R G Lewis. I went in there, and found myself very surprised. First: The shortlist turned out to be between the Ricoh GXR and Leica X1. I was quite impressed with the Leica - it is a lovely product, generally great UI (like the rotational shutter-speed/aperture), menus as comfortable as old shoes (coming from M8/M9), and frankly astonishing IQ.

But there were some deal-breakers. First: very slow AF. This was obvious in the Ricoh too, but instead of a lovely rotational dial around the lense for manual-focus (like the RIcoh), the X1 used a horrid thumb-dial at the rear of the camera. Now in a fixed-lense camera, this makes no sense, especially as the space is used by... a horrid lump of plastic.

And then the second: the price.

Yes, I know the Ricoh is expensive - substantially more than the Panasonics, but it is a system camera. I walked out of the shop with the GXR, the EVF, 50 APS-C macro, 24-72 macro unit, extra battery and the folding lense-cap, and it cost LESS than the X1. When the 28mm APS-C unit is launched, I will be able to have a full system camera covering nearly all lense-lengths for the same price as what is, in-effect, a closed, 35mm camera.

Anyway, I'll write a few words when I've played with it a bit more, but Ricoh GXR it is. And a lovely little camera it seems too...
Click to expand...
 
urban_alchemist said:
And this from an X1 owner. How are you finding yours?
Click to expand...

I love my X1, but to me, anything other than the G1/G2 was good choice. He seemed excited about all of the options the Ricoh offered, so it seemed like he made the right choice. I'm more of a simple no frills guy, so the X1 suits me. The Ricoh is cool though...there is no doubting that. I'd love to have one as well.
 
dovi said:
How is the EVF?
Click to expand...

Surprisingly good actually - I find myself using it exclusively. Any problems with it are associated with the AF (the image blacks-out for faster focussing on the 50mm), but refresh seems instant, and there's little-to-no lag...

I'll do a bit of a 'first impressions' review on another thread: seems theres quite alot to say...
 
I choose to wait. Should the A12 28mm f/2.5 module for GXR scheduled end of this year have AF performance on par with the Panasonics...

Before then, I'll be happy with my GRD3, which has everything but a large sensor.
 
When I look over all at the GXR and GRD line I have to think that focus speed is the only area that Ricoh is lacking. I read is partially because I suspect when they were ordering features vs competitors the M4/3s was not as visible. Also I think that in spite of our desire to use this type of camera rather than a DSLR the manufactures may not believe that they have a hope in he11 of achieving the volume DSLRs seem to have in the market.

I'm wondering how much power those motors and focus CPUs take. Perhaps if they only had a single spot focus (like an old SLR screen) that might allow them to live with less power (simpler CPU)?

As the motor sits with the lens and sensor in the GXR this might allow Ricoh to come out with units that say cost 40% more but are as fast focusing as the DSLRs? Would you pay more of a premium for a premium speed module?

Enquiring minds want to know.

B2 (;->
 
Focusing with the GXR/A12

Focusing with the GXR/A12

For me, the issue of slow focus with the GXR/A12 is overblown. The issue, it seems to me, is a more general one for non-viewfinder cameras. Considering street photography, once you have to use AF, even the fastest and the best system is difficult to use: when I tried doing street photography with the Nikon D300, which has one of the best and fastest AF system with focus tracking, it was often still difficult to know whether the camera had focused on the plane of focus that one wanted; and one generally did better to use zone focusing in any case, as one would using a Leica-M.

With the GXR/A12 I zone focus as follows: I use Spot AF to focus a the plane of focus that I want and then press the Function 2 button, which I have programmed to swich between AF/MF. This puts the camera into manual focus mode, and keeps the zone focus where I want it, which also eliminates shutter lag from the AF and from the exposure meter as well becacuse I also use manual spot exposure.

The GXR and the GRD3 have a very good manual exposure method: one presses one of the buttons which centers the meter "needle" on the "recommened exposure" and then one can adjust the shutter speed by using the ADJ lever on the back of the camera.

I too am waiting for the 28mm-e/f2.5 module for the GXR, but focusing will be less of an issue because that lens has much greater depth of field than the A12/50mm-e lens.

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran
Pak Nam Pran
 
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I decided to pickup a G2 as a part of my only digital system: micro4/3. MF-capable BUILT-IN EVF is a big plus for me. And I'll probably use it with the LCD panel tacked face-in as I did with G1 in the past. This, right now, the best "rear cap" for various prime lenses I can use on the m4/3 platform, and I'll ignore the LCD and use just like I'd do with my film cameras. (I dislike shoot-n-check-LCD method that you'd typically do with digital cameras because that breaks the "rhythm.")
 
Not overblown IMO

Not overblown IMO

I think the Autofocusing in anything but bright light is terrible. Even Ricoh posted firmware to give a quicker focusing option.

I must say that using the technique you recommend has worked out very well for me. Learning how to manually focus this camera to get the depth of field I want has made me much better with Manual Focus cameras in general. fwiw two quick shots I was able to get using the technique you describe:

961729964_wct5U-M.jpg


961732174_bxU5L-M.jpg


I think Ricoh should turn off snap focusing by default because that was giving me hell until I read about it. Between Snap focusing and the slow Autofocusing speed I was having a rough time getting clearly focused shots.

Still a great camera for many other reasons...




malland said:
For me, the issue of slow focus with the GXR/A12 is overblown. The issue, it seems to me, is a more general one for non-viewfinder cameras. Considering street photography, once you have to use AF, even the fastest and the best system is difficult to use: when I tried doing street photography with the Nikon D300, which has one of the best and fastest AF system with focus tracking, it was often still difficult to know whether the camera had focused on the plane of focus that one wanted; and one generally did better to use zone focusing in any case, as one would using a Leica-M.

With the GXR/A12 I zone focus as follows: I use Spot AF to focus a the plane of focus that I want and then press the Function 2 button, which I have programmed to swich between AF/MF. This puts the camera into manual focus mode, and keeps the zone focus where I want it, which also eliminates shutter lag from the AF and from the exposure meter as well becacuse I also use manual spot exposure.

The GXR and the GRD3 have a very good manual exposure method: one presses one of the buttons which centers the meter "needle" on the "recommened exposure" and then one can adjust the shutter speed by using the ADJ lever on the back of the camera.

I too am waiting for the 28mm-e/f2.5 module for the GXR, but focusing will be less of an issue because that lens has much greater depth of field than the A12/50mm-e lens.

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran
Pak Nam Pran
Click to expand...
 
Ricoh GXR A12 GR 28mm with a Olympus viewfinder

Ricoh GXR A12 GR 28mm with a Olympus viewfinder

I use a Olympus viewfinder on my Ricoh GXR with A12 GR 28mm
 

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Great setup. On my GRD III I have a CV 28 Black Metal finder, brings a somewhat classic flavor and many strange looks from people.

Great shots, thanks for sharing!

B2 (;->
 
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