Unfortunately Leica is very poor at informing dealers of allocations. Let me rephrase that: Leica does not inform dealers at all. Shipments will just appear without any advance notice.
This just encourages consumers to place orders with multiple dealers. Leica dealers have implored Leica USA for many years to create a system so customer orders can be properly allocated to eliminate this issue but their suggestions remain ignored...
This just encourages consumers to place orders with multiple dealers. Leica dealers have implored Leica USA for many years to create a system so customer orders can be properly allocated to eliminate this issue but their suggestions remain ignored...
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Correct. I maintain excellent relationships with my dealer friends and we play the purchase roulette game together. I've spent thousands of dollars with each of these dealers so they enjoy good business from me, and in return they do what they can to help me achieve my goals. My dealer friends and their sales personnel are good people and have been invaluable assistants to my photography.
If I could just place an order with a dealer and know that the dealer will receive it in an orderly and timely fashion, we wouldn't have to play these games. As it is, we do the best we can.
Meanwhile, I'm studying the instruction manual in detail. This is a fascinating camera with very subtle and useful design details. I'm really getting jazzed up thinking about what I can do with it; it's quite a piece of work. Obviously, I won't get the most out of the R lenses until the dedicated adapter is available next year, but this is not the kind of "use for 90 days and then recycle" equipment that others are putting out. Learning the camera and lenses properly will take most of the time between when I have it and when the R Adapter SL is available—and I have the time.
I suspect I'll be using this camera for quite a few years to come, just like my M-P. It's such a delight that there is still at least one camera manufacturer that designs and builds for the long haul.
G
Duane Pandorf
Well-known
I too follow Kirk's blog and enjoyed what he had to say about the forthcoming SL. These two snippets caught my attention:
"They obsess about camera features that real photographers will find unimportant while ignoring the one dominant attribute a true Leica should possess; absolute image quality. And that absolute image quality comes from the design and manufacturing precision of the lenses and the necessary tight tolerances of the camera and sensor integration with the lenses. That's it. No other magic beans. No vampire killing, secret silver bullets."
"A final note. Leica understands the shift in the market. I conjecture that they've given up the middle and bottom of the markets; written it off as deceased for serious camera makers. What other company is better positioned to go after the remaining high end photographers and photo enthusiast with unfettered budgets? The others have already screwed up their reputations by trying to embrace every step of the demographic ladder with some sort of product. They've damaged their brands in the eyes of the last, remaining consumers with money. They'll pay for that..."
serrada36
Member
Sorry, this is a bit long...
I had a chance to spend a little time with the SL.
It is not as big as you think...it's bigger than an A7 and smaller then a S2. I found it to be comfortable to hold. Please note, I have really big hands. Focusing was very quick with the "kit" lens and the viewfinder was fantastic. It handled very nicely with a Summilux 35 and it was built like a tank.
However, I don't think specs (which are pretty good) or any of that is really what this camera is about.
Forgetting the brand and forgetting the price, having a full frame mirrorless camera that is optimized to use nearly all of Leica's legacy glass and newly developed glass developed just for this system is what makes this camera unique and relevant.
I think the real problem here is Leica's marketing. The whole "PRO" thing and really playing up the fact that it's mirrorless is sort of like putting a big "TURBO" or "RACING" sticker on your new Audi. Mirrorless is not a new technology and it’s not that exciting to hear “PRO”. Nikon and Canon do well with the pro market and they can support it.
I believe that this is a camera that would appeal to many artists, enthusiasts and yes, even some pros.
However, I think the photographer who will really be interested in the SL includes, but is not limited to...
Those who appreciate a full frame camera that can accept a collection of Leica glass.
Those who want something different than Canon or Nikon but with an equally durable and perhaps a more expensive feel.
Those who enjoy the Leica mystique but don't like rangefinders or manual focus.
Of course there are, and will be many others...
I understand that many (most) people don't "get" what Leica is all about. I can't blame them. On paper, Leica will generally loose a battle of “tech specs”. Not to say that the cameras aren’t great, I think they are. The fact is, the lenses are some of the best (cue Clarkson) “…In the world”. However, that being said, I think those who are Leica fans may be more sentimental / emotional with their camera purchases. They are looking for the experience. Whatever that may be. Using a rangefinder, seeing that “Leica glow”, whatever. And, truth be told, some may just want the "best". Sometimes, the best just = expensive.
I applaud Leica for taking some risks and for trying to do different things for their user base. I don’t blame them for trying to expand their reach with cameras like the T and X series. Ultimately, they don’t usually play well in the same sandbox as the other kids. They are just too pricey and don’t have the latest in technology.
In the end, I don’t think that this camera is intended to compete with Nikon, Canon, Sony or any other camera in any other market.
It is for those who are in the market for a…Leica.
Just my .02 which is worth .00
I had a chance to spend a little time with the SL.
It is not as big as you think...it's bigger than an A7 and smaller then a S2. I found it to be comfortable to hold. Please note, I have really big hands. Focusing was very quick with the "kit" lens and the viewfinder was fantastic. It handled very nicely with a Summilux 35 and it was built like a tank.
However, I don't think specs (which are pretty good) or any of that is really what this camera is about.
Forgetting the brand and forgetting the price, having a full frame mirrorless camera that is optimized to use nearly all of Leica's legacy glass and newly developed glass developed just for this system is what makes this camera unique and relevant.
I think the real problem here is Leica's marketing. The whole "PRO" thing and really playing up the fact that it's mirrorless is sort of like putting a big "TURBO" or "RACING" sticker on your new Audi. Mirrorless is not a new technology and it’s not that exciting to hear “PRO”. Nikon and Canon do well with the pro market and they can support it.
I believe that this is a camera that would appeal to many artists, enthusiasts and yes, even some pros.
However, I think the photographer who will really be interested in the SL includes, but is not limited to...
Those who appreciate a full frame camera that can accept a collection of Leica glass.
Those who want something different than Canon or Nikon but with an equally durable and perhaps a more expensive feel.
Those who enjoy the Leica mystique but don't like rangefinders or manual focus.
Of course there are, and will be many others...
I understand that many (most) people don't "get" what Leica is all about. I can't blame them. On paper, Leica will generally loose a battle of “tech specs”. Not to say that the cameras aren’t great, I think they are. The fact is, the lenses are some of the best (cue Clarkson) “…In the world”. However, that being said, I think those who are Leica fans may be more sentimental / emotional with their camera purchases. They are looking for the experience. Whatever that may be. Using a rangefinder, seeing that “Leica glow”, whatever. And, truth be told, some may just want the "best". Sometimes, the best just = expensive.
I applaud Leica for taking some risks and for trying to do different things for their user base. I don’t blame them for trying to expand their reach with cameras like the T and X series. Ultimately, they don’t usually play well in the same sandbox as the other kids. They are just too pricey and don’t have the latest in technology.
In the end, I don’t think that this camera is intended to compete with Nikon, Canon, Sony or any other camera in any other market.
It is for those who are in the market for a…Leica.
Just my .02 which is worth .00
Indeed. I just hope there are enough buyers, so they can fund other interesting products, like a Q2 with a 35mm.
uhoh7
Mentor
You have these great personal relationships but they won't tell you where in the queue you are? That seems strange.
Perhaps your tactics are what it takes to get one. I think as a dealer I would have more loyalty to a customer who was committed to buy from me and not making many orders.
I must give you credit for being up front about it, telling them you are ordering from others, honest though uncomfortable.
It'll be interesting to see if the plan works or you just fall aways down everyone's list
As to the "insult": it was an observation, and still accurate, with a jibe attached. I have never used such a tactic, but perhaps you must to get one early on. It sounds like the system does not help much.
You are right, when it comes to obtaining a newly introduced and scarce Leica, I don't know what I'm talking about
Dealers can have their individual wait lists but Leica does not divulge where in the queue dealers are.
It's irritating as hell.
I've spent a lot of time with customers only to lose orders to other dealers because another dealer got a camera first. I'm not sure that it ever evened out, it certainly didn't as far as orders that I booked personally.
It's irritating as hell.
I've spent a lot of time with customers only to lose orders to other dealers because another dealer got a camera first. I'm not sure that it ever evened out, it certainly didn't as far as orders that I booked personally.
maitani
Well-known
fondled an SL this week for a good half an hour,
i expected to hate it for the ridiculously big (but fantastic) kitlens and the inet talk, with even more ridiculously big hood... however..
my verdict:
I LOVE IT, if I had the funds I'd buy one at full retail and RIGHT NOW.
this one could definitiely replace ALL my digital cameras.. well besides pro nikon, and i'd buy 3 additional batteries with it, too..
+ viewfinder (I almost forgot it's electronic while using it, super-hi-res and lagfree, IMPRESSIVE, big and bright -> never thought I'd say this about any EVF ever.
+ very responsive
+ SILENT shutter (reminds me the fine shutter of the E-1)
+ AF is instant and completely inaudible
+ IQ seems great (hadn't brought my own sd card... so i haven't checked on monitor yet)
+ MF with 75 lux and 90 apo and 50 summicron worked like a charm, the viewfinder is so good, that focus peaking is great to have, but not necessary.
+ build quality gets 100% rating, bult like a tank, it's perfect.
+ body is outright small, i expected it worse (the kit lens isn't)
+ top display is great
+ size is so perfect to use R, M and Nikon lenses with the right adapters.
- kit lens is huge (performs unbelievable though, AF is instant like nikon AF-S lenses on pro bodys)
- price (I'll wait six months or so t buy one used
imo leica hit a homerun, If sony brings a body at this size, and build, I'd be all over it, too. the SL is the future. great work leica.
i expected to hate it for the ridiculously big (but fantastic) kitlens and the inet talk, with even more ridiculously big hood... however..
my verdict:
I LOVE IT, if I had the funds I'd buy one at full retail and RIGHT NOW.
this one could definitiely replace ALL my digital cameras.. well besides pro nikon, and i'd buy 3 additional batteries with it, too..
+ viewfinder (I almost forgot it's electronic while using it, super-hi-res and lagfree, IMPRESSIVE, big and bright -> never thought I'd say this about any EVF ever.
+ very responsive
+ SILENT shutter (reminds me the fine shutter of the E-1)
+ AF is instant and completely inaudible
+ IQ seems great (hadn't brought my own sd card... so i haven't checked on monitor yet)
+ MF with 75 lux and 90 apo and 50 summicron worked like a charm, the viewfinder is so good, that focus peaking is great to have, but not necessary.
+ build quality gets 100% rating, bult like a tank, it's perfect.
+ body is outright small, i expected it worse (the kit lens isn't)
+ top display is great
+ size is so perfect to use R, M and Nikon lenses with the right adapters.
- kit lens is huge (performs unbelievable though, AF is instant like nikon AF-S lenses on pro bodys)
- price (I'll wait six months or so t buy one used
imo leica hit a homerun, If sony brings a body at this size, and build, I'd be all over it, too. the SL is the future. great work leica.
thanks for the info. Exactly how big is the 24-90?
Ruhayat
Well-known
It's funny how much the initial reaction to this camera reminds me of the reaction to the X Vario when that first came out. I was one of the cynics, right until I finally got my hands on one at the shop. Since then I couldn't stop thinking about one.
That's the thing about being cynical -- it's usually from people who have neither seen one, held one, nor have an interest or ability to fund one. So has any vehement naysayers actually touched one of these for themselves and wish to change their point opinion?
At least we now know it's definitely not a camera for midgets from DPReview. I hope the joke is on them now as much as they tried to make a cruel joke of the camera then.
That's the thing about being cynical -- it's usually from people who have neither seen one, held one, nor have an interest or ability to fund one. So has any vehement naysayers actually touched one of these for themselves and wish to change their point opinion?
At least we now know it's definitely not a camera for midgets from DPReview. I hope the joke is on them now as much as they tried to make a cruel joke of the camera then.
Ruhayat
Well-known
A few people were questioning the size and wondering why Leica would make a camera so big. Hmm. You think Leica made them so big just because? Or out of sheer spite, perhaps?
One thing I have learned about the new Leica: there is method to their apparent madness. I have learned to trust them to know what they are doing.
For instance, read what Dr Karbe's explanation about why the X Vario lens had to be that slow. If I could have the 28-90mm Vario Summicron from my old Digilux on an X Vario body, I'd really love that, who wouldn't? But the D2 Vario Summicron goes from f/2 to f/2.3, the filter size if 62mm, and that's on a tiny 1/2.3" sensor. The X platform has APS-C sensors, 10 times bigger than 1/2.3" -- so you think an X Vario Summicron can be even smaller than the Digilux 2? And retail at the same price? Please.
One thing I have learned about the new Leica: there is method to their apparent madness. I have learned to trust them to know what they are doing.
For instance, read what Dr Karbe's explanation about why the X Vario lens had to be that slow. If I could have the 28-90mm Vario Summicron from my old Digilux on an X Vario body, I'd really love that, who wouldn't? But the D2 Vario Summicron goes from f/2 to f/2.3, the filter size if 62mm, and that's on a tiny 1/2.3" sensor. The X platform has APS-C sensors, 10 times bigger than 1/2.3" -- so you think an X Vario Summicron can be even smaller than the Digilux 2? And retail at the same price? Please.
Bille
Well-known
How many EVFs do you know? A99 by chance? So far the best I´ve seen.
Richard G
Mentor
Great link to Kirk Tuck's opinion above. Sounds right.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
No maybe about it, Leica and Panasonic have intensified their technical cooperation lately. Result: The Q and the SL.the best mirrorless focusing now is probably by panasonic with their DFD techonology (no PDAF!). maybe some of that has trickled into the leica SL