Why do ZI rangefinders cost so much even used?

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The swing back to film by Millennial folk have given the price rise..
Innocents in the jungle of cameras that are often faulty, worn out,
badly serviced, have faulty electronics and no hope of repair..
Lomo encourages using crappy, out of date film. sigh.

Some here show hatred for SLR, that changed the look of photography.
Beautiful well composed images, easy lens interchangeability.
What you see is what you get.
RF is nice, I love my M3, M2 and like my M6*..
Mirror blackout last a fraction of a second.
Use other eye to watch scene if it's so bothersome!
My SLR, Pentax and later Nikon made good money.
I enjoyed using and delivering that work.

Never used a Bessa or a Soviet box..simply saw no use to try.
I could NEVER focus a Hasselblad, that does not make it bad!

Prices of film steadily going up.
I never shoot color as Digital is better and easy to control..

The FM-10 made by Cosina.
The Nikon FE and FM's were Nikon.
If prices too high, maybe do more research, attend camera fairs.
There are great bargains out there..
 
If your ZI breaks.. even if it´s a small part like a rewind knob. where do you find replacement parts?
If any Leica breaks, you send it to your Leica tech and it is repaired. That´s one of the reasons it retains value. That´s also why Rolleis keep going. There are parts around.
The Zeiss Ikon is an out of production camera and there is no official dealer. That´s why i question those prices. It does not look like an indestructible machine.
 
leicapixie said:
The swing back to film by Millennial folk have given the price rise..
Innocents in the jungle of cameras that are often faulty, worn out,
badly serviced, have faulty electronics and no hope of repair..
Lomo encourages using crappy, out of date film. sigh.

Some here show hatred for SLR, that changed the look of photography.
Beautiful well composed images, easy lens interchangeability.
What you see is what you get.
RF is nice, I love my M3, M2 and like my M6*..
Mirror blackout last a fraction of a second.
Use other eye to watch scene if it's so bothersome!
My SLR, Pentax and later Nikon made good money.
I enjoyed using and delivering that work.

Never used a Bessa or a Soviet box..simply saw no use to try.
I could NEVER focus a Hasselblad, that does not make it bad!

Prices of film steadily going up.
I never shoot color as Digital is better and easy to control..

The FM-10 made by Cosina.
The Nikon FE and FM's were Nikon.
If prices too high, maybe do more research, attend camera fairs.
There are great bargains out there..
Click to expand...

Your post perfectly describes my experience. Pentax 67s, Nikons and Hasselblads that were terrible handling cameras.

Loved Nikon it´s been decades but their full frame dSLR is big and heavy if you are just walking around w/your camera waiting for an image to happen.

Fujifilm digital made me look again at a Leica body which I never bothered about buying a lens for. My small Fuji x30 pays homage to Leica design so I got interested in picking the M again instead of buying another digital camera.. the never ending upgrading on digital bored me. Not to mention having a physical negative is reassuring so I want film. BW film. Color is much better rendered on digital cameras than any film IMO.
 
gavinlg said:
1. The FM2 wasn't made by Cosina, it was made by Nikon. The FM10 was made by Cosina.

2. Your comparison with the other cameras doesn't hold up - I bought a Pentax 6x7 with 105mm lens for $110aud in 2011 in Tokyo. Now the absolute cheapest you could get one would be around $600-800aud. Likewise I just bought a mint condition f3HP for around 500. They have gone up in price too. Same with the m6, the Hexar RF, the Hexar AF, ALL point and shoots, the Bessa Rx series, the fm2. All gone up significantly in value over the last few years.
Click to expand...

Prices on Pentax 67 lenses are so low it´s embarrassing. Beautifully built huge glass selling for peanuts.
Leica R lenses and cameras sell for cheap.
Even Hasselblads are cheap. They used to be ultra expensive. Leicas were cheap compared to Hasselblad Zeiss lenses. Now it´s cheap. Made in Sweden. Zeiss Ikon lenses made in Germany. All cheap.

But a Cosina Zeiss Ikon body costs 1800 dollars? I could buy a Rollei F 2.8 in pristine condition for that money. And I can fix the Rollei. I doubt i could fix the ZI.
 
colker said:
Prices on Pentax 67 lenses are so low it´s embarrassing. Beautifully built huge glass selling for peanuts.
Leica R lenses and cameras sell for cheap.
Even Hasselblads are cheap. They used to be ultra expensive. Leicas were cheap compared to hasselblad zeiss lenses. NOw it´s cheap. Made in Sweden. Zeiss Ikon lenses made in Germany. All cheap.

But a cosina Zeiss Ikon body costs 1800 dollars? I could buy a rollei F 2.8 in pristine condition for that money. And i can fix the Rollei. I doubt i could fix the ZI.
Click to expand...

I agree that the Ikon is too expensive for what it is, but there are very few low cost rangefinders of high quality. That's pretty much why. Bessa's now cost 800+, a good used M6 is up around 1500 (in US dollars), Hexar's are cheaper but not able to be fixed.
 
gavinlg said:
I agree that the Ikon is too expensive for what it is, but there are very few low cost rangefinders of high quality. That's pretty much why. Bessa's now cost 800+, a good used M6 is up around 1500 (in US dollars), Hexar's are cheaper but not able to be fixed.
Click to expand...

I rather pay 1000 on a Leica M 2,3,5 than 800 on a Bessa but that´s me. Bought my M3 for 600 dollars about six yrs ago. At this forum classifieds.
A used Summicron was around 800 dollars then.

I like the ZI... i like most everything about it. It´s just terribly overpriced. And it does not look like a long lasting camera.
 
colker said:
If your ZI breaks.. even if it´s a small part like a rewind knob. where do you find replacement parts?
If any Leica breaks, you send it to your Leica tech and it is repaired. That´s one of the reasons it retains value. That´s also why Rolleis keep going. There are parts around.
The Zeiss Ikon is an out of production camera and there is no official dealer. That´s why i question those prices. It does not look like an indestructible machine.
Click to expand...

Leicas will almost certainly work for longer than ZI cameras, so if longevity and spare parts are a high priority for you then pay the extra and get an M3, M6, M7 or whatever camera you'd like to maintain indefinitely.

If the camera itself is the most important thing then compare features that are important to you and go from there. My M3 sits in a drawer while the ZI gets a lot of use because for me the ZI is superior, more useful and more fun. It doesn't matter how long it lasts because if it dies I'll get another. We're not talking new car money here.
 
That's just how the market works, plain and simple.
I want a 1967 Mercedes-Benz 190SL. Even more, I want a 1959 300SL. Or even a lowly 1968 280SE. They are not anywhere near the performance of a modern Subaru. They are fickle, can have reliability issues (especially the electronic fuel injected veraions) bad on gas economy, slow and generally fuddy duddy. I don't like the fact they cost so much because compared with a Subaru or Toyota or Honda they can't compete. Why aren't they less expensive?

Phil Forrest
 
colker said:
If your ZI breaks.. even if it´s a small part like a rewind knob. where do you find replacement parts? .....
Click to expand...
From your local camera repair tech, just like any other camera. Now mine does not have a ZI parts camera but he has drawers of others and a network of similar repair guys. When I needed a replacement shutter button, it took my guy one day to find a replacement from a buddy. He had it in his hands in two days and returned my working camera in three days.

These local repair techs are everywhere, just most of you do not know where they are. Mine does no marketing, has an unlisted phone, and no sign in front of his shop. Yet, he stays too busy as all the pros know where he is.
 
I don't think there is much demand for them and there aren't that many for sale. Ebay has them listed again and again until some sucker wants one and pays. Personally I like the camera, but for the money they are going for I'd get a Leica. Or three Hexar RFs. When the ZI was new, they were selling them in a box with ZM lenses and those cost like $17-2100. They even came with a viewfinder for the odd kits.
 
zeiss service in oberkochen still repairs the zeiss ikon, and there’s four years left of legally required service. after that, you can still probably get it repaired for lots of problems. if the electronics were going to fail anytime soon, it would have been a manufacturing defect, so you don’t have to worry that much.
 
Zeiss Ikon is a great rangefinder. Its not a piece of junk that will fall apart quickly. If it were everyone would know about it by now. It is very light, very handy and very easy to use. Great viewfinder and great metering.

If mine breaks it goes in a box and goes to Zeiss for repair. I pull the spare out the drawer and keep shooting. I bought both of mine new several years ago. I haven't had to do that yet. It is one of the best cameras I have ever owned. It is so good that I'll probably send mine in for a factory overhaul in a couple of years even if it still works. The camera is certainly worth the money to have it done.

I had the F6 and I sold it. Nice camera but not as nice as my ZI. For starters, the F6 is way too complex. The ZI is simple and very easy to use. Everyone has their preferences.

As you can tell, for me it is definitely worth the price. For you it isn't. I suspect that if I didn't already own one I would be like you.

Unfortunately not a lot of them were made so it will cost you money to find out what a lot of us already know. Some day in the future most of them will finally be worn out and the prices will drop. That is kind of how it works out.
 
Cosina is obligated to provide parts & services until 2024. Turnaround usually is fast and the price is reasonable - or even cheap by Leica standard. Goodwill arrangements beyond the period happen at times in Japan, for example Nikon provided service for the F3, F5 and other long-discontinued models for a limited time last year.

The ZI is not a sophisticated camera. You can find substitutes for the mechanical parts from many donors, exactly because, they are all made by Cosina. The electronics are as reliable as any electronic cameras. People are still willing to pay $$$$ for the far-less reliable and far more expensive digital cameras that are guaranteed to be not serviceable in a decade. So I assume there isn't that much wrong in buying into a relatively no-frills electronic film camera.

But don't let these fool us. None of these quantity, quality, support and retail price attributes would fully explain why a certain used camera can be expensive, while another one slumps in price.

Again, it can be irrational. Used gear price is not only just about the camera, but also people-driven. A better explanation may be lying in the demographics of those who are actually buying, using and selling the camera nowadays.
 
Comparing ZI to other cameras like FM2 or others has zero bearing whatsoever on the ZI price.

As stated earlier, it’s simply supply/demand.

What is amazing to me is the relatively low price of the Hexar RF which has some truly unique features for an M bayonet camera. This camera represents the other side of the supply/demand equation, they are true bargains! I just sold one here for $675 and it was near perfect and still took a few weeks to move.
 
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