Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
These worries about Facebook remind me of an episode of "Your Pretty Face is Going to Hell" that I saw recently. For those who don't know, the show portrays Hell as a big corporation. Satan in the boss, and the people who work for him (they're all red with horns!) work in cubicle offices and wear khakis and polo shirts with the company's logo on it. As bosses tend to be, Satan is a jerk to his employees. The employees themselves backstab each other while trying to do as little work as possible. Their 'job' is to get people to sell or give their souls to Satan. The show is on Cartoon Network late at night, though it is not a cartoon.
In one episode, the employee devils are at a meeting. Satan comes in and tells them that times have been tough lately. Souls are 'down', so everyone needs to work harder to meet the company's goals. He brings in a water cooler and announces a contest. Whoever brings in the most souls in the next 24 hours gets a drink of cold water!
The winner delivered MILLIONS of souls to Satan. He did this by starting a social networking site whose terms of service 'fine print' included a clause where the user agrees, as a condition of joining the site, to transfer ownership of his soul, irrevocably and eternally, and with no payment, to Satan!
Some of you guys act like Facebook is even worse, lol.
Here's the video!
http://video.adultswim.com/your-pretty-face-is-going-to-hell/terms-and-conditions.html
In one episode, the employee devils are at a meeting. Satan comes in and tells them that times have been tough lately. Souls are 'down', so everyone needs to work harder to meet the company's goals. He brings in a water cooler and announces a contest. Whoever brings in the most souls in the next 24 hours gets a drink of cold water!
The winner delivered MILLIONS of souls to Satan. He did this by starting a social networking site whose terms of service 'fine print' included a clause where the user agrees, as a condition of joining the site, to transfer ownership of his soul, irrevocably and eternally, and with no payment, to Satan!
Some of you guys act like Facebook is even worse, lol.
Here's the video!
http://video.adultswim.com/your-pretty-face-is-going-to-hell/terms-and-conditions.html
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Ultimately facebook is like McDonalds ... you realise the perils (salt, sugar etc) and enter by your own choice.
I'm surprised at some of the anger being directed at FB in this thread. It's a mirror of society as social networking will always be and it can make you happy or angry or sad. There's a real storm in a teacup going on here ... getting your knickers in a twist over something that you don't actually have to partake of seems futile to me.
Facebook has put me in touch with friends I haven't seen in twenty years since I joined and I personally find a lot (not all!) of what I see on my news feed every day quite interesting.
I'm surprised at some of the anger being directed at FB in this thread. It's a mirror of society as social networking will always be and it can make you happy or angry or sad. There's a real storm in a teacup going on here ... getting your knickers in a twist over something that you don't actually have to partake of seems futile to me.
Facebook has put me in touch with friends I haven't seen in twenty years since I joined and I personally find a lot (not all!) of what I see on my news feed every day quite interesting.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
What we have with Facebook is a multi-billion dollar global corporation which is operated by a board of directors who collectively and individually have more financial assets than the Almighty.
These people have hired a platoon of attorneys to write a twelve page user agreement in which the user agrees to hand over their intellectual property to Facebook for exploitation by Facebook for their own gain with no compensation being paid to the copyright owner.
The user/member also agrees to indemnify Facebook and underwrite the cost of all all legal liability resulting from the use of their intellectual property by Facebook for Facebook's enrichment. In addition, Facebook makes becoming a member contingent upon agreeing to all the above - while intentionally misleading and misdirecting its users and piously pretending that this is symbiotic relationship.
I can't for the life of me see how that arrangement could possibly piss off people...
Ranchu
-
^Well said!^ I am always baffled when people choose not to understand, it's not that difficult.
zauhar
Mentor
Once I actually read the fine print of my mortgage document before signing. It stated clearly that the bank could call my mortgage 'due and payable' any time it wants. I called this to the attention of the broker, who soothingly told me that was 'standard language', only put into effect in dire circumstance (the bank wants to foreclose, obviously). But it didn't say anything like that - it said they could come to my door and demand full repayment whenever they want, for whatever reason (or for no reason at all).
Obviously banks don't do that - otherwise why would anyone risk taking on a mortgage? And Facebook likewise is not going to start using your content without permission, because then many people will get mightily pi--ed off, cancel their accounts, and the Facebook's value will start to deteriorate.
But my main point - I will bet that everyone on this thread who has or has had a mortgage has similar language in the contract. You're worried about this crap and not the roof over your head?
Or maybe you all trust in the innate goodness of our financial system.
Randy
Obviously banks don't do that - otherwise why would anyone risk taking on a mortgage? And Facebook likewise is not going to start using your content without permission, because then many people will get mightily pi--ed off, cancel their accounts, and the Facebook's value will start to deteriorate.
But my main point - I will bet that everyone on this thread who has or has had a mortgage has similar language in the contract. You're worried about this crap and not the roof over your head?
Or maybe you all trust in the innate goodness of our financial system.
Randy
sanmich
Mentor
Exactly.
I am just dealing with health insurance for the family.
want to guess the letter size?
and this has just a tiny bit more serious implications if I don't carefully read them before signing...
I am just dealing with health insurance for the family.
want to guess the letter size?
and this has just a tiny bit more serious implications if I don't carefully read them before signing...
Michael Markey
Mentor
What we have with Facebook is a multi-billion dollar global corporation which is operated by a board of directors who collectively and individually have more financial assets than the Almighty.
These people have hired a platoon of attorneys to write a twelve page user agreement in which the user agrees to hand over their intellectual property to Facebook for exploitation by Facebook for their own gain with no compensation being paid to the copyright owner.
The user/member also agrees to indemnify Facebook and underwrite the cost of all all legal liability resulting from the use of their intellectual property by Facebook for Facebook's enrichment. In addition, Facebook makes becoming a member contingent upon agreeing to all the above - while intentionally misleading and misdirecting its users and piously pretending that this is symbiotic relationship.
I can't for the life of me see how that arrangement could possibly piss off people...
So , they`re a successful company who uses lawyers .
Those lawyers have produced a twelve page document which protects the companies interest.
Membership isn`t obligatory.
If I was in any way concerned I simply wouldn`t join Facebook.
However many individuals and increasingly many businesses have.
zauhar
Mentor
This is what I hate about the world - while deceptive, exploitive sh-t has always been with us, the sheer volume of it has become staggering, seeping into every corner of life. Eventually there is too much to fight, perhaps that is why the OP and Ranchu rail against this one example that appears before them.
As Billy Corrigan sang : Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Randy
Tejasican
Well-known
Placing language in a document is one thing, doing is another. People do need to know about what Facebook stipulates and understand it, especially as you are giving full rights to whatever you upload to them.
Some will not care. Others will ditch Facebook entirely. Yet others will become more selective about what is placed there.
I left Facebook earlier this year but non-photo business will soon require a limited return. I will not be posting any photo that I do not want released in the wild on there as I already experienced Facebook using my work as they see fit and have no wish to repeat that.
Some will not care. Others will ditch Facebook entirely. Yet others will become more selective about what is placed there.
I left Facebook earlier this year but non-photo business will soon require a limited return. I will not be posting any photo that I do not want released in the wild on there as I already experienced Facebook using my work as they see fit and have no wish to repeat that.
Tejasican
Well-known
A local government used a photo on the web for a time (it had only been posted on Facebook), I was miffed at first but realized that I had done it to myself by posting it.- given te nature of the ToS. Usage was simply part of the price of posting to Facebook. I don't have a problem with that, as it is their business and they can run it as they please, especially since they are clear as to the intent to profitize your content up front. That said, people need to consider exactly what they are consenting to and how that intersects with their interests and adjust or refrain accordingly.
zauhar
Mentor
The TOS doesn't say that everyone in the world has rights to your content. I am sure Facebook knew nothing about what happened.
In fact, a direct link to the photo URL won't work, they needed to do a screen capture unless FB cooperated with them. If the culprit claimed it was all permitted by FaceBook TOS, I think that was just bs.
Randy
Ranchu
-
I rail against all of them, no problem.
Billy Corgan maybe a rat but I'm not, nor am I in any cage.
Ranchu
-
Yeah? And it looks like under the new TOS, Facebook can simply give or sell it to them for use on their Facebook page or in ads on everyone's, don't it? Such a trusting soul you are, Randy.
Ranchu
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No kidding, it's a rights grab and nothing less.
Have you ever done any consulting work for Facebook?
Ranchu
-
"Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) expressed concern on Wednesday about Facebook's proposed changes to its privacy policy.The changes would clarify that Facebook has the right to include users' photos, names and other personal information in advertisements to their friends.
"This troubling shift in policy raises a number of questions about whether Facebook is improperly altering its privacy policy without proper user consent and, if the changes go into effect, the degree to which Facebook users will lose control over their personal information," Markey wrote in a letter to Federal Trade Commission Chairwoman Edith Ramirez.
He asked the FTC to determine whether the changes violate the terms of Facebook's 2011 settlement with the agency. That agreement barred Facebook from sharing users' information with third parties without their "affirmative express consent.""
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-v...n-markey-troubled-by-facebook-privacy-changes
So Facebook is trying to wear down the FTC. And they really, really want to be able to steal and then sell images of kids. Nice.
"This troubling shift in policy raises a number of questions about whether Facebook is improperly altering its privacy policy without proper user consent and, if the changes go into effect, the degree to which Facebook users will lose control over their personal information," Markey wrote in a letter to Federal Trade Commission Chairwoman Edith Ramirez.
He asked the FTC to determine whether the changes violate the terms of Facebook's 2011 settlement with the agency. That agreement barred Facebook from sharing users' information with third parties without their "affirmative express consent.""
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-v...n-markey-troubled-by-facebook-privacy-changes
So Facebook is trying to wear down the FTC. And they really, really want to be able to steal and then sell images of kids. Nice.
zauhar
Mentor
Before you can break out of the cage, you have to admit you are inside one. We like to pretend we are free, and our masters give us enough leash that we can pretend we are. But try saying the wrong things too loudly and the cage will no longer simply be a state of mind.
I realize that some people have reconnected with old friends on Facebook, and some find it useful for business networking, but people did those things before Facebook ever existed. I couldn't care less about it.
Randy
Tejasican
Well-known
A layer of velvet to pad the iron chains...
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Given the above, I am staggered by the number of Facebook apologists who have rushed to the defense of a soulless, multi-billion dollar corporation and the greedy, amoral "persons" (we'll use that term) who run it that are hell bent on stealing the intellectual property of their so-called members and then pimping it out to add more billions to Facebook's coffers (and more millions to their year end bonuses).
Only a fool - or a Facebook employee - would smile and nod in agreement at such an arrangement.
As others have pointed out, "So don't post your intellectual property on Facebook." I do not and never will.
In other words , "Please: Don't piss on our shoes and try to tell us it's raining Kool-Aid." Some of us were indeed born at night - but it wasn't last night.
I know that speaking frankly is considered to be socially unacceptable by the genteel, but willful ignorance and denial becomes a bit exasperating when it is offered up as a steady diet.
Major Tom
Established
Anyone heard of Plato's Cave?