johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
... and an auto-focus full-frame sensor at that as well.
I think this plot is a little thick
leicashot
Well-known
Leica will eventually go AF. Why? Because that is the mainstream future and while Leica may want to stay traditional, it cannot afford to with the new generation unable to understand such reasoning.
I expect to see AF come into play very soon on the Leica M, maybe around M11 time with new AF lenses.
I expect to see AF come into play very soon on the Leica M, maybe around M11 time with new AF lenses.
DNG
Film Friendly
And many say the M9 is too expensive!
Add AF and all new lenses Wooooo Hoooooo Bucks
So, buy an AF body to use MF lenses on.... Ummmm. Many of us do that already with our m4/3. NEX, and Fuji cameras
(I have 3 native m4/3 lenses and 11 adapted lenses
)
Going to AF would be a huge undertaking for a small company that has difficulty building their existing catalog of lenses.
AF also means that all that heavy metal must go. Unless people are happy with slow AF...yeah right...
AF also means that all that heavy metal must go. Unless people are happy with slow AF...yeah right...
muser53
MUSER53
Back to the original post~a full frame camera with a sensor optimized for M mount lenses with an evf only, no rangefinder. As long as the finder is a good one and the ergonomics mimic the M's this could be the camera (currently unable to afford an M9) I've been waiting for.
leicashot
Well-known
And many say the M9 is too expensive!
Add AF and all new lenses Wooooo Hoooooo Bucks
So, buy an AF body to use MF lenses on.... Ummmm. Many of us do that already with our m4/3. NEX, and Fuji cameras
(I have 3 native m4/3 lenses and 11 adapted lenses
Come Photokina 2012 or 2013 you may be surprised. This is the way Leica needs to go, financially. Once this generation of 30-80yo has moved on, where will Leica be without AF and more automation?
jtm6
Well-known
Perhaps to compete with the M9 bodies on the used market after the M10 is released?
jtm6
Well-known
Covered in swarovski crystals and 4X the price, naturally. :angel:
leicashot
Well-known
You know it
BobYIL
Well-known
Leica need to introduce some new and more affordable products if they want to maintain a substantial revenue to survive, especially in the new facilities after this many investments.
Almost all aficionados who were dreaming of a Full-Frame Leica and being able to afford have bought one; the rest is either waiting for the used prices to go down or realized that FF-Leica is not for them or it does not worth the price tag.
Those of us who would use a manual FF rangefinder including those who buy Leicas as prestige objects are not that many to support a production of about 10K to 15K a year for many years to come. The number of the M9 bodies in our hands has reached over 30K… Some of them have already been delivered with the new bodies, some got used ones, some even sticked to the M8 series.. OTOH, a series of new mirrorless cameras have been introduced with some features and capabilities above of those of Leica; and these with the fraction of the price of a Leica.
The Monochrom and the M10 would seek their markets through the “cracks” left unfilled by the M9 series; i.e. “enhanced B&W capability”, “higher ISO”, possibly “higher resolution” or for some very picky ones some fringe advantages like better DR or Liveview even video. But do you believe all these M9 owners would sell their cameras to buy the M10s? No way.. I guess some would even prefer to stick to their CCD sensors in spite of all new things to come from Solms.
Leica need to create a new market with one or two new products.. The MM or the M10 are not that far from being “variations on a main thema”; I do not imagine that there could be thousands looking forward to see a Leica with CMOS sensor so they could plonk down some $8K to 10K for example. Also, the digital market is too volatile; today some state of art DSLRs with features probably not to be satisfied even with the M11 are selling for less than half of what an M9 costs. If the rumors were true, with the D600 to come with the same sensor as the M10 how would the masses would justify the form factor is worth the difference between $1.600 and something this side of $10.000?
Almost all aficionados who were dreaming of a Full-Frame Leica and being able to afford have bought one; the rest is either waiting for the used prices to go down or realized that FF-Leica is not for them or it does not worth the price tag.
Those of us who would use a manual FF rangefinder including those who buy Leicas as prestige objects are not that many to support a production of about 10K to 15K a year for many years to come. The number of the M9 bodies in our hands has reached over 30K… Some of them have already been delivered with the new bodies, some got used ones, some even sticked to the M8 series.. OTOH, a series of new mirrorless cameras have been introduced with some features and capabilities above of those of Leica; and these with the fraction of the price of a Leica.
The Monochrom and the M10 would seek their markets through the “cracks” left unfilled by the M9 series; i.e. “enhanced B&W capability”, “higher ISO”, possibly “higher resolution” or for some very picky ones some fringe advantages like better DR or Liveview even video. But do you believe all these M9 owners would sell their cameras to buy the M10s? No way.. I guess some would even prefer to stick to their CCD sensors in spite of all new things to come from Solms.
Leica need to create a new market with one or two new products.. The MM or the M10 are not that far from being “variations on a main thema”; I do not imagine that there could be thousands looking forward to see a Leica with CMOS sensor so they could plonk down some $8K to 10K for example. Also, the digital market is too volatile; today some state of art DSLRs with features probably not to be satisfied even with the M11 are selling for less than half of what an M9 costs. If the rumors were true, with the D600 to come with the same sensor as the M10 how would the masses would justify the form factor is worth the difference between $1.600 and something this side of $10.000?
Archlich
Well-known
Based on the information available, I highly doubt there will be an autofocus M coming next month. You won't see it in 2013 either - no reason for Leica to release another $10,000 M camera with AF to cannibalize the M10 only one year after the later's release (longer will it take them to keep the production up to demand).
Leica's been doing well financially. In fact, better than ever. If the company's truly "user oriented" it would have gone AF long ago instead of now, thirty years after the AF revolution. They are doing good by producing luxury goods, and the luxury market doesn't care if the camera's AF or not anyway: it's the red dot the customers seek.
They could and had opened up cheaper product lines in the past. But in order sell products from a company who had spent a questionably smallish amount into R&D in the past fifty years, they have price with a premium over the competitors. Now add the Red Dot Value (why not?), and the Made in Germany value (look at the X1 and X2), you end up with something not cheap at all. Since it's not cheap and only the well-offs will be interested, why not price it even higher? In that case, which is the case in real life, only the M line survived. On the other hand, why spend the R&D toll when you can simply make money by sticking the red dot upon some readily available Japanese product? Ask all the D-Lux and C-lux users on RFF and they'll agree with me and Leica, that the dot alone is sufficient enough.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
This obsession with 'the mainstream' and autofocus is very strange. There are 7 billion people on earth. Not all of them want to buy 'mainstream'. Morgan doesn't make air-con family saloons or people movers; Lobb doesn't make trainers.The M-series is NOT pure luxury:: it's also an alternative, for people who want a different kind of camera.
Leica already has an autofocus SLR. They could no doubt make an EVIL camera. The question is why they would want to put it in the M-mainstream. Especially when, as noted by others, they are doing very nicely, thank you, financially. Far too many people are saying, "I want this, so everyone should be forced to have one," or talking as if 'the market' is somehow more than the aggregate of willing buyers.
Cheers,
R.
Leica already has an autofocus SLR. They could no doubt make an EVIL camera. The question is why they would want to put it in the M-mainstream. Especially when, as noted by others, they are doing very nicely, thank you, financially. Far too many people are saying, "I want this, so everyone should be forced to have one," or talking as if 'the market' is somehow more than the aggregate of willing buyers.
Cheers,
R.
Kent
Finally at home...
Yeah, it's just that only an infinitesimal fraction of those 7 billion people can afford to buy anything Leica.
fivepointsix
Newbie
Sod the "ME" bring back the M3 !!!
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
Yeah, it's just that only an infinitesimal fraction of those 7 billion people can afford to buy anything Leica.
But even for that minute fraction Leica can't build their cameras fast enough.
ottluuk
the indecisive eternity
Umm, a .85 MP without a battery installed is, for all practical purposes, a modern M3. They've been making those from 2003.
Ruhayat
Well-known
Hmm. According to the article, the ME will be full frame, have an M mount, and optical viewfinder. Yet the M10 will have CMOS, live view and video.
Sounds like the ME might be the photography-only option for people who don't want a "bells and whistles and the kitchen sink too" M-gadget, no?
And since it will have an optical VF, using the R lenses on it will be the same as me using the lenses on my M bodies at the moment: with an adapter, and guess focusing only.
Sounds like the ME might be the photography-only option for people who don't want a "bells and whistles and the kitchen sink too" M-gadget, no?
And since it will have an optical VF, using the R lenses on it will be the same as me using the lenses on my M bodies at the moment: with an adapter, and guess focusing only.
gdi
Mentor
Going to AF would be a huge undertaking for a small company that has difficulty building their existing catalog of lenses.
AF also means that all that heavy metal must go. Unless people are happy with slow AF...yeah right...
Well they've already done it with the S2; I don't see that they can't do it, I just think that they won't do it.
NoirPomme
Newbie
I don't know if the AF system is a fad or not, but i wouldn't be surprised if it stayed. A lot of people would rather let the camera do the work than having to invest time in learning aperture, exposure, speed, dof, etc... You'd be surprised how many people own expensive cameras and lenses, yet they don't know how to operate it manually other than turning it on.
bwcolor
Mentor
That made me smile.. As long as they don't have to focus their cellphones then most people will be free of the need to focus to record images.