taffy
Well-known
Same thing happened to me at about the same shutter count. Got it fixed in HK for USD 400. I checked with Singapore and they were charging SGD 1300 and in the US USD 1200.
Now it works just fine.
Now it works just fine.
Michael Markey
Mentor
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Anacdotal evidence is no help - the highest shuttercount recorded on an M8 is (or was 1 1/2 year ago, it will be considerably more now) 350.000 without a hitch.
goamules
Well-known
Remember when a TV or stereo cost so much, it was economical to have repairmen? Today a TV costs $400, (equivalent to $100 in 1970) and when it breaks, it is thrown in the garbage. All electro-mechanical devices break, but the digital Leicas cost 5 times what any other camera costs.
Remember when cars were all mechanical, and could be repaired cheaply? And how everyone complains that today's cars are so complex, and electronic, that you cannot work on them? Same with the digital Leicas.
I'm saying, digital Leicas will break, and will be too expensive to fix. That's why I've decided to stay away from them. A client offered to trade me his M9 for a rare antique LF lens I own. I declined because I said "what will I do when this complex, exotic electronic device breaks?" He admitted that it already had a problem, but that he sent it to Leica and got a full upper replacement that cost him quite a lot. So now he's got too much money in it, and they're already too expensive.
Sorry, but nothing I've read has convinced me a modern Leica (or any Leica really) is more reliable or durable than any other camera. All I read is attempted justification for their extreme high price. I drive Toyotas and Mazdas, not Lamborginis and Bentleys.
Remember when cars were all mechanical, and could be repaired cheaply? And how everyone complains that today's cars are so complex, and electronic, that you cannot work on them? Same with the digital Leicas.
I'm saying, digital Leicas will break, and will be too expensive to fix. That's why I've decided to stay away from them. A client offered to trade me his M9 for a rare antique LF lens I own. I declined because I said "what will I do when this complex, exotic electronic device breaks?" He admitted that it already had a problem, but that he sent it to Leica and got a full upper replacement that cost him quite a lot. So now he's got too much money in it, and they're already too expensive.
Sorry, but nothing I've read has convinced me a modern Leica (or any Leica really) is more reliable or durable than any other camera. All I read is attempted justification for their extreme high price. I drive Toyotas and Mazdas, not Lamborginis and Bentleys.
raid
Dad Photographer
So it is a matter of failure based on some probability model. It is a matter of luck.
willie_901
Mentor
Yes, Statistics is the study of confused numbers....
Bob
Exactly, which is how come I'm a Bayesian.
willie_901
Mentor
And once again, it is great to be in the good tail of a Gaussian distribution.
raid
Dad Photographer
Willie,
People have different "problems" they are dealing with, and yours is being a Bayesian!
People have different "problems" they are dealing with, and yours is being a Bayesian!
raid
Dad Photographer
The M8 time to failure distribution may not be Gaussian. I would rather see that distribution being skewed in such a way to have a very low probability for a short mean time to failure.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I got my driving license in 1964, drove for about 1.5 million Km since - but I have never driven a Toyata or Mazda
Godfrey
somewhat colored
While the process was frustrating due to its lengthiness, the service was excellent. The folks at Leica USA were prompt and on point for every part of the cycle, loaned him a camera the second time, and again through the subsequent cycles until his camera was finally fixed. The followed up with him after the final repair three more times just to be sure it was taken care of properly and he was happy with it. My friend was not delighted with having the problem, but was delighted with Leica and how they took care of him through it. It made him a lifetime Leica owner.
So perceptions differ. For myself, I'd *much rather* have a company look after me, treat me and my camera like individuals, builds a relationship, and takes care of me whatever it takes, than one that simply tosses a replacement unit at me.
G
willie_901
Mentor
The failure is based on a state of nature. The shutter design, materials, manufacturing tolerances, and usage conditions determine how it fails.
But the M8 perspective buyer has to consider, a hypothesis: is the M8 shutter life a problem or not. The buyer could care less about how the shutter fails. They only care if the expected shutter life is an unacceptable risk.
Unless the M8 is different from every other manufactured device, a Gaussian distribution is a useful model to describe the real, but unknown, distribution of M8 shutter lives. In fact there are very few physicsl phenomena that are not. The M8 shutter life data base is useful because it gives the Gaussian a scale and some idea about the distribution width. Neither the OP's experience or jaapv's report are very useful to someone considering M8 ownership. Very few owners will experience either of those shutter lives.
If one is trying to decide whether or not to buy a M8 (or any other camera), the expected shutter life can be ignored. Very early failure is bad luck and a very long shutter life is good luck.
raid
Dad Photographer
I learned this lesson a long time ago. Whether film or digital, I always have pairs of similar cameras, if only for the peace of mind. When my paycheck depended on my images, as a rule I would shoot a few frames on a second camera when I knew I had "the money shot" in another camera.
The lesson is recalled as something my boss way back then said: I need your photos, not excuses. The lessons learned the hard way are the ones remembered best.
The M9 is my back-up camera for my M8!
They are both in one small camera bag.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
When I'm being paid to do photography, of course I agree completely. Although I have rarely if ever pulled the second camera backup out of the bag at all.
When I'm doing my own photography, for whatever reason, the other truth I've learned is that regardless of how many opportunities I might miss, for whatever reason, there are an infinite number of other photo opportunities that I can take advantage of.
So if I'm out on a photo walk and my camera breaks, I just put it aside, enjoy the rest of the walk, and go back again some other time. Or look for other photo opportunities when next I've got the moment to go shooting. I feel no pressure to get every photo op that comes along. There are plenty to choose from, at any time.
G
raid
Dad Photographer
Notice that the graph for the data on M8 failures is not symmetric about its mean. It is skewed. As expected, there are fewer cases of early failure time as compared with late failure time.
http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/leica_m8.htm
http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/leica_m8.htm
froyd
Mentor
I think it was Winogrand that said something along the lines that no pictures existed while he was reloading his camera. I thought that was a pretty amazing statement for a guy who shot dozens of rolls in a single outing yet had to come to terms with some "down time," and possible missed shots, while reloading.
ray*j*gun
Mentor
When an M8 is upgraded to an M8u does anyone know if the actuation count with-in the camera is reset to zero or if the count continues?
Thanks.
Thanks.
bherman
bherman
It doesn't sound feasible to me that an M8, when sold new was what, around $6000-$7000.00, and a $1500.00 Nikon can claim 150,000 tested actuations on its shutter?
What happened to German craftsmanship? I know photographers who have far exceeded 100,000 actuations on their M3 and M4s and they just keep clicking away.
It doesn't make sense to me that albeit a partially mechanical camera, that the shutter's MTBF (mean time between failure) is that low.
What happened to German craftsmanship? I know photographers who have far exceeded 100,000 actuations on their M3 and M4s and they just keep clicking away.
It doesn't make sense to me that albeit a partially mechanical camera, that the shutter's MTBF (mean time between failure) is that low.
willie_901
Mentor
We'll check again in the distant future after 90% of all M8 shutters have failed. Right now the samples are biased. This sort of thing can be a problem when a frequency of occurrence statistic is applied to a state of knowledge hypothesis.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
It isn't. MTBF is an estimated value based on a representative sample of shutters which have been tested to the failure point. Any individual shutter can have a problem at any time.
That's the nature of a statistical estimate.