rbelyell
Well-known
yup, up to this point, youre correct. but that is exactly what this thread is about isnt it? not that 'leica is doomed' or 'it will go out of business'--those are equally not rational, and as i re-read the posts here, no one made such claims. rather the point is that the circumstances that gave leica a particular market share may have changed with these products. i dont have to be near the photographer as many here, nor have near the storehouse of information, to understand that for any product the market is made up of diehards and edge-feeders. what this article is saying, and what rational thought based on economic theory provide, it is those 'edge-feeders' that are most prone to calculating the 'bang for buck' proposition in favor of these new sony products if they are as claimed. and that can most definitely have a noticeable effect on leica market share.
and just because folks differ on the subjective nature of the bang for your bucks elements, that doesnt mean discussion 'ceases to be rational'. that only happens when one or more parties decide not to discuss subjective matters rationally--people decide that, its not preordained. a good rule of thumb for rational discussion is for folks to not present opinions in such a way as to paint any contrary opinion as foolish. thats typically when things devolve.
Ansel
Well-known
Precisely because you cannot find one to buy... its so small that its verging on the irrelevant as far as the overall market goes.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
This is intended as parody, I assume?
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Well you are more optimistic about our longevity than I am, but if we both live to be 118 years old, I hope you are still enjoying that M2!
M2, or even M6, yes. M240, almost certainly not.
perudo
Established
exactly! I think analog Leicas will never be replaced...I own 2 and will never sell them. They are pure mechanical beauties and I will always find someone to repair them. But I could never convince myself to put 5000 or 7000 in a new digital leica, that will be 2600 worth 4 years later . Will you be able to repair your cracked M9 sensors in 5 years? Regarding costs, will it be worth the repair? Let's face it: digital cameras are no long term investments...just my opinion of course....
literiter
Well-known
Well you are more optimistic about our longevity than I am, but if we both live to be 118 years old, I hope you are still enjoying that M2!
I doubt I'll be here in 50 years, but my M2 and M4-P could be, so someone could be enjoying them.
Mark T
Established
This is better, that is better. Seems to me that if your photography is motivated by a better picture from one day to the next, you will never be happy with your photographs. As surely as the sun rises tomorrow, the cameras of tomorrow will be better than the cameras of today. What is the purpose of your photography? Posterity, memories, art, megapixels? Theads like this lead me to despair...
uhoh7
Mentor
A7r is actually a big help for Leica, unable to deliver digital bodies at reasonable prices to shoot their great glass.
Monochrom
Well-known
the a7 with that ridiculous hump on top of it cannot even rival the nex series....
literiter
Well-known
Yep, they aren't making heirlooms anymore.
Markus
Established
Die Welt seems to overlook one important thing: The Leica M - Any Leica since 1954 is a true rangefindercamera. Sony has never been close to build such a camera.
Ccompared to a Leica M the new Sony a7 is very simply build: A smallformat sensor and two LCDs wrapped in a body and your done. A Leica M houses the complete mechanics for the rangefinder including prisms and the laser-engraved framelines for the viewfinder. After the manufacturing every camera has to be testet and adjusted. If the rangefinder is working properly you get a very precise focussinghelp. Since I own a Mamiya 7 II I realy enjoy using a rangefindercamera.
Another thing is that Leica also builds high-quality lenses. Sony just outsourced this to ZEISS. ZEISS of course makes fantastic lensens, but they aren't made in germany. So Leica offers a complete system.
Die Welt is only right, if you just look at the price of the cameras. Germans tend to only see the price, but the same time they spent a lot of money for their cars and smartphones. Its not surprising that someone who buys a Leica has the reputation of an artist or somoeone with too much money. People don't think about that the price could be worth for someone.
I have read the article in german and there are no sources ment. Actually the author assumes, that Sony enters Leica's part of the market.
I think now Sony enters the market of Canon and Nikon. The a7 just fits between the EOS 6D and EOS 5D Mark III with the advantage to be smaller and lighter. Plus the missing AA-Filter of the a7r is a killer-feature. Besides Sonys lens roadmap the a7 can be used with nearly any lens - imagine of using all the nice ZEISS ZI lenses or with such a camera.
Ccompared to a Leica M the new Sony a7 is very simply build: A smallformat sensor and two LCDs wrapped in a body and your done. A Leica M houses the complete mechanics for the rangefinder including prisms and the laser-engraved framelines for the viewfinder. After the manufacturing every camera has to be testet and adjusted. If the rangefinder is working properly you get a very precise focussinghelp. Since I own a Mamiya 7 II I realy enjoy using a rangefindercamera.
Another thing is that Leica also builds high-quality lenses. Sony just outsourced this to ZEISS. ZEISS of course makes fantastic lensens, but they aren't made in germany. So Leica offers a complete system.
Die Welt is only right, if you just look at the price of the cameras. Germans tend to only see the price, but the same time they spent a lot of money for their cars and smartphones. Its not surprising that someone who buys a Leica has the reputation of an artist or somoeone with too much money. People don't think about that the price could be worth for someone.
I have read the article in german and there are no sources ment. Actually the author assumes, that Sony enters Leica's part of the market.
I think now Sony enters the market of Canon and Nikon. The a7 just fits between the EOS 6D and EOS 5D Mark III with the advantage to be smaller and lighter. Plus the missing AA-Filter of the a7r is a killer-feature. Besides Sonys lens roadmap the a7 can be used with nearly any lens - imagine of using all the nice ZEISS ZI lenses or with such a camera.
Markus
Established
mervynyan
Mervyn Yan
I think for film cameras, I would pay high price to them. As to digital equivalent, as long as lenses will work perfectly on evil, a7r is really attractive alternative for me. of course, I am still lusting after a monochrome.
Margu
Established
Sony is after canon and Nikon, fuji already beat Leica and once it releases its FF X series cameras, that would be the symbolic end of Leica. Leica will survive as long as people think leica is a status symbol.
I get what you are saying... and if you are the family heirloom type, it makes sense. But I find that digital's depreciation is offset by not having to buy film. However, it only makes sense if you are prolific, but not so much if you aren't.
sojournerphoto
Mentor
Thank you - made my day!
Thank you - made my day!
This If Japanese aesthetic sense drives business decisions this is probably true, helped of course by the fact that the market is disappearingly small in their context.
Thank you - made my day!
This
If Japanese aesthetic sense drives business decisions this is probably true, helped of course by the fact that the market is disappearingly small in their context.
GaryLH
Mentor
Actually one of the reasons I decided to wait and c about the Sony really is that they tend to push new body out faster then any other camera maker I can think of.. The other is that I am more interested in seeing how Fuji reacts. For my type of photography, ff is really not needed.
I current have an old nex3 that is on semi permanent loan to a friend of mine and currently don't miss it at all.
Gary
