Sony A7 /A7r hand on video at TheCameraStoreTV

Got to love a load of non-camera designers saying on a messageboard how professional camera designers could have made a camera (that they have no true idea what's inside) without a hump for the viewfinder. Send your CVs to Sony guys before they start on version 2.

;)
 
cpc said:
FF sensors are not that much taller than APS-C (less than 1 cm). They've certainly managed to keep the RX1 small. And the A7/A7r is almost 3cm taller than the Nex-6. And taller (and longer) than some entry level DSLRs (like Canon 100D). Pretty sure they could have kept the Nex-6 form factor with only a slight increase in height, had they skipped the faux prism.
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I believe it is not the sensor itself, but the mass of attached electronics and cooling system that takes up space. Sony also decided to integrate a lot more controls than the nex6, which also takes up space on the inside.

I'm not sure, though. Maybe this is already the limit of modern engineering and they just can't do better, or maybe this is a conscious design choice for the functionalist. It's not ugly in the sense that a yellow k01 is - I would say it looks understated, which is not always a bad thing.
 
YYV_146 said:
I believe it is not the sensor itself, but the mass of attached electronics and cooling system that takes up space. Sony also decided to integrate a lot more controls than the nex6, which also takes up space on the inside.

I'm not sure, though. Maybe this is already the limit of modern engineering and they just can't do better, or maybe this is a conscious design choice for the functionalist. It's not ugly in the sense that a yellow k01 is - I would say it looks understated, which is not always a bad thing.
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I am sure they've utilized the available space well. But still, the RX1 is significantly smaller. And the Nex-6 manages to tuck in the exact same brilliant viewfinder without resorting to humps. I admit that form factor is one of my most favorite things about the Nex-6.

I also happen to prefer the left side placement of the EVF (as in the Nex-6/7). The middle position is probably more comfortable for left eye shooters though. Hopefully a future A6/A6r will have the EVF on the left side and flush.
 
Well the hump doesn't bother me. I compare the A7r to my A99 and then it is small. That is why A99 will be on the market over the weekend. Roll on December.
 
cpc said:
I am sure they've utilized the available space well. But still, the RX1 is significantly smaller. And the Nex-6 manages to tuck in the exact same brilliant viewfinder without resorting to humps. I admit that form factor is one of my most favorite things about the Nex-6.

I also happen to prefer the left side placement of the EVF (as in the Nex-6/7). The middle position is probably more comfortable for left eye shooters though. Hopefully a future A6/A6r will have the EVF on the left side and flush.
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I think they are not the same evf, only the same resolution. The new one is the EM1's evf, which supposedly has better tonal range and contrast
 
YYV_146 said:
I think they are not the same evf, only the same resolution. The new one is the EM1's evf, which supposedly has better tonal range and contrast
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Yes, this is may be the case. Sony seem to improve on image quality of the EVFs in subsequent iterations. Same physical size though, no?
 
cpc said:
Yes, this is may be the case. Sony seem to improve on image quality of the EVFs in subsequent iterations. Same physical size though, no?
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I don't know about that...Actually taking a close look at my NEX-7 the A7's lump looks quite big, maybe the evf itself is bigger or the hot shoe takes up space.
 
regularchickens said:
To folks who have a problem with the hump size and placement: what else would you prefer they do with the EVF? It's a large unit, between screen and optics, and very similar to the Olympus VF-4 and the RX1 accessory EVF. If there's no room in the body for it, as they say, would you want the hump to rest on the end of the camera? Or would you just prefer the EVF to be moved to an accessory?
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The hump on SLR cameras came about because of the need for a direct optical path above the mirror. The hump was centered on the camera body to accommodate the film cassette and take up spool.
The down side is we all have noses between our eyes - I've yet to see an SLR with a indentation to put a nose :D

I've also never heard anyone complain a camera is too long; so a longer camera body and placement of the EVF on the LHS of the body works better that a central viewfinder for the 2/3rds of us who have right eye dominance. As per the GX7 and NEX7.

The accessory shoe EVF is the worst possible option : too easily knocked
 
jsrockit said:
Ah, I got it... you meant for you perosnally and not in general.
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yes it was subjective.

Also while I own multiple cameras in film, I am not so into GAS for digital. The quick depreciation and continuous updating stops me.

Still on a more objective note as a 'main digital' camera for a consumer/pro-sumer I do not see it as a killer product as it tries too much to hit a sweetspot of being interchangeable, FF, mirrorless and 'quasi-reflex' at the same time and it does not have a clear target segment to me, unless as a 'second camera'. To succeed has to take customers away from Nikon Canon and m 4/3, and at that price it is not a given to me.

Which is different from asking if it is a nice product or if you would be happy to have it if you received as a present. Than the answer is obviously yes :)

Therefore the 'subjective' opinion is the most relevant to me and particularly what "like-minded" people in this small forum of RF/film users think.

If over the next months I hear of RF forum members moving massively from Leica digital or XPRO-1 to this one I could be a buyer when the price comes down a bit.

Which is what I did with the X100 that btw now also takes new life with the fw upgrade.
 
The A7 and R are a massive splash for Sony, noisy shutter aside. Here begins a system and if people look at it like that, then its perhaps even more enticing. As for stealth on the street, its often overrated. Having a small 'non-pro' looking camera has the greater bearing on how people respond to being photographed IMHO (and how YOU go about it). Quieter shutters will probably follow in time.

As a Canon and M user, I had been pondering where and how a high MP and high DR sensor was going to enter my kit bag without needing to buy into a NIkon system or await a probably fearsomely expensive high MP flagship Canon DSLR. Whichever way, it was going to cost well over $6K to even get started, assuming I remain with Canon (either D800 + lenses or Eos XX). I'm making large prints from eve/night scenes in the city and resolution and DR both come into play in a big way.

Now, getting the D800E sensor into my bag costs $2K and I can use my Leica lenses... and my Canon L glass, perhaps even a future 17/24 TS-E shift lens, which is another reason I want to remain with Canon (that and the fact I find the cameras miles more intuitive). With M glass, I get D800E IQ (presumably) in a far, far smaller package too, so its better than the D800 route.

These Alphas are a heck of a result for people who want general travel/carry around camera with most of the utility of a DSLR and no sacrifice in IQ at all. I still suspect the Leica M will be the better street camera (for the way I shoot), but for everything else, perhaps not.

Yes, the 35 Zeiss is expensive but will come down I am sure, but it may be a lens pitched at dealing with the next generation of 45+ MP cameras, in which case I'd rather pay $900 once than $600 twice. Lenses are an investment. This is why I did not regret buying my 24-70 II L when I saw its performance. Holy cow.
 
To me this camera is more like a geek toy than a camera.
To manny features and buttons. While the essential stuff is hard to get a firm control over.
The lenses are bulky and slow....
Once a lens in mounted its a big and cumbersome as a smaller SLR...
 
uhoh7 said:
Wow, Keith likes it!!

omg this is big. Watch out leica! :)

my fav was when you actually stayed up for the live feed after trashing it :)

good man :)
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LOL ... I like the camera for what it represents but not so much it's looks which are just OK.

Technically it's right there IMO ... if I actually needed one I wouldn't hesitate. :)
 
Rogier said:
To me this camera is more like a geek toy than a camera.
To manny features and buttons. While the essential stuff is hard to get a firm control over.
The lenses are bulky and slow....
Once a lens in mounted its a big and cumbersome as a smaller SLR...
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saw pictures of it compared to an m6 somewhere on the net...it is actually smaller than a M6
 
I don't think this is an accurate or fair analysis.

The lenses have to cover FF, so they are not going to be as small as lenses covering APS-C. That's the price of the IQ that is on offer from the sensor. That said, manually focusing Leica M/Zeiss ZM lenses are very small and can be used with an adaptor.

It is unfair to say the Sony/Zeiss lenses are bulky and slow. They are not particularly bulky for their speed at all and the modest apertures selected (I am sure) to allow the lenses to remain reasonably compact. There will be fast glass coming and it will be bulky like any fast FF glass, because the issue is the size of the sensor, not the camera. There is no point putting a 36 mp sensor in a camera and compromising performance with overly small lenses full of optical compromises.

While you are right in that with, say the Zeiss 24-70, the body is 'vaguely approaching' the bulk of a Canon 6D with a 24-70 f4L, here are the actual figures for weight:

6D + 24-70 f4L - 1400g
A7R + 24-70 - 900g

The 6D (or equivalent D600 package is over 50% heavier with an additional half kilo, or more than a pound, in your hand. Now if we were to compare the bulk of a 6D/D600 with native prime against an A7 with Leica M lens and we are talking half the volume. Oh, and the A7R has 36 MP against 20-24 for the 6D/D600. In reality, both for bulk and weight, the A7/R are much closer to XPro-1 territory than DSLRs.

Menus and interface is an issue that is personal and I doubt the menu system will be worse than the X100!




Rogier said:
To me this camera is more like a geek toy than a camera.
To manny features and buttons. While the essential stuff is hard to get a firm control over.
The lenses are bulky and slow....
Once a lens in mounted its a big and cumbersome as a smaller SLR...
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Quite! Lenses that stand out as exciting to use on a 36 mp body:

24-70 L II - Prime performance in a zoom.
85 1.2L II - Beautiful, beautiful rendition.
17 and 24 TS-E - Peerless tilt and shift lenses.

I have no idea what the compromises with Leica wides might be, but I have a 24 3.8 elmar, which has a remarkable ability to record detail that appears to go well beyond even the Leica Monochrom sensor. I'd guess at this lens needing a 50+MP bayer sensor to run out of puff.


mretina said:
This is potentially a game changer for me. I missed the ability to use Canon L lenses as well.
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There is a Mercedes S class car, and then there is a modern Kia with lots of features. Both cars can be used for driving around.
 
raid said:
There is a Mercedes S class car, and then there is a modern Kia with lots of features. Both cars can be used for driving around.
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You mean, there is a Duesenberg, and there is a 2014 Corvette. ;)

Of course I would rather have the former, but I could not keep it going.
 
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