Perhaps they are busy using their cameras rather than buying new ones?
Oh, I meant that I used to see a lot of film cameras in use around NYC a few years ago ... now, not as much. I walk around NYC a lot photographing.
Huss
Mentor
It's a tough call trying to sell new film cameras when so many fantastic ones are available for pennies on the dollar used.
I have a like new condition F6, USA model (so can be serviced here) for $700. $2200 new.
A like new Nikon FE2 (which I think is a better camera than the F6) for $80.
A collection of Nikon F and F2 cameras which started at $100. And these, IMO, are the quintessential film SLRs.
A like new Bessa R3a that cost me $315
Perfect shape Minolta X300 for $20 (I'm surprised how good this camera is)
etc etc
When all this is available, stuff that (some of it) used to cost thousands new, how do you compete against that as a new mfg?
Did I mention you can get a perfect Nikon F4 for $150? An F3 for $100? An F5 for $250?...
Also, because film photogrpahy is seen as retro, most of the kids getting into it want a retro camera. They have no interest in buying a new one.
I have a like new condition F6, USA model (so can be serviced here) for $700. $2200 new.
A like new Nikon FE2 (which I think is a better camera than the F6) for $80.
A collection of Nikon F and F2 cameras which started at $100. And these, IMO, are the quintessential film SLRs.
A like new Bessa R3a that cost me $315
Perfect shape Minolta X300 for $20 (I'm surprised how good this camera is)
etc etc
When all this is available, stuff that (some of it) used to cost thousands new, how do you compete against that as a new mfg?
Did I mention you can get a perfect Nikon F4 for $150? An F3 for $100? An F5 for $250?...
Also, because film photogrpahy is seen as retro, most of the kids getting into it want a retro camera. They have no interest in buying a new one.
Corran
Well-known
Agreed 100%.
The market is pretty much saturated with used cameras, most of which work fine. eBay, craigslist, or a family member can provide any number of 35mm cameras.
I imagine only a connoisseur or one of those people who can't stand the thought of used items would buy a new (35mm*) film camera today.
95% of the people I personally know shooting film are doing it for art classes, and their required equipment is a Pentax K1000 or similar. They couldn't afford a new film camera anyway.
*All bets are off for larger formats. I guess the MF cameras didn't sell well? Surprising.
The market is pretty much saturated with used cameras, most of which work fine. eBay, craigslist, or a family member can provide any number of 35mm cameras.
I imagine only a connoisseur or one of those people who can't stand the thought of used items would buy a new (35mm*) film camera today.
95% of the people I personally know shooting film are doing it for art classes, and their required equipment is a Pentax K1000 or similar. They couldn't afford a new film camera anyway.
*All bets are off for larger formats. I guess the MF cameras didn't sell well? Surprising.
mani
Well-known
I'm seeing the opposite trend - but not towards new film cameras. Not only are there plenty of (better) used cameras available, a large part of the young demographic attracted to film want to recycle and revive old cameras instead of adding to the churn of consumer products.
In Sweden? Perhaps it could differ from city to city or from country to country?
Michael Markey
Mentor
It`s certainly not like that in the UK .
I can`t remember the last time I saw somebody (apart from me ) using a film camera.
The local camera clubs stopped accepting film entries some years ago now.
I can`t remember the last time I saw somebody (apart from me ) using a film camera.
The local camera clubs stopped accepting film entries some years ago now.
Corran
Well-known
Michael Markey
Mentor
Good point but actually they are all totally focused on the print.
I rarely encounter any gear talk and certainly never any lens talk
No film or slide entries though ...
The UK photographic societies (to give them their proper title), through their governing bodies, have a strangle hold (my perjorative) on the aspiring amateur .
Dictating both content , style ... and medium.
joeswe
Well-known
Not so strange, IMO, as the Leica film models have no competition at their price point, while the Bessa cameras have lots of competition at theirs. The market is flooded with used Leica M cameras, for the price of a new Bessa R/M you can get a decent and recently serviced Leica M6 (or any other older non-collectors model you prefer). With The only "unique" selling point of the Bessa's which cannot be matched by a used Leica offering would be the R4 models with their integrated 21mm/25mm frame lines. I have used various 35mm film ragefinders from both CV and Leica and when I compare, for example, a new R2M/R2A with a serviced user M6 classic I frankly do not see a lot that speaks in favor of the Bessa and quite a bit that speaks against it.
HHPhoto
Well-known
ian_watts
Ian Watts
Yes, that is my interpretation too. I'm also generally quite relaxed about the availability of film and it's future prospects and see no need to talk of "nails being driven into coffins", etc. However, the news from Cosina is nonetheless a bit of a blow to the film oriented side of the photo industry. I don't think it has any direct significance in terms of future film sales and lab services but the loss of a major manufacturer of new film cameras sends an unwelcome message. It moves us closer to a time when you might no longer be able to buy a new film camera, in itself not necessarily a problem (after all, there are millions of used cameras in circulation) but, without the option of new hardware, a psychological threshold will have been crossed and film use will have moved firmly into the dedicated enthusiast sector.
Bille
Well-known
Who bought a new Bessa anyway? The camera was overpriced for what it was. I owned several but always bought second hand.
mfogiel
Mentor
The main point of it all was Bessa R4x. For a reasonable price you were getting a wide angle multi frame viewfinder with a bonus camera attached.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
THAT threshold was probably already crossed around the time the Bessas appeared - by 2000, digital took over the first row of the point and shoot shelves in big camera stores. And even if you place it later, it was over four or five years later, when the same happened for SLRs.
At least in Europe the existence of the CV Bessa series was never known outside the dedicated enthusiast sector, and going by forum comments, the US are generally considered a place where film photography is even less accessible. Did it see general distribution and public interest in Japan?
visualbassist
Member
extremely sad...
i'm a relatively new owner of an r3a, and i love everything about it. not even in the same universe as my previous fixed lens RF's.
on a somewhat unrelated note: last year we had a school assigmnet: we had to shoot a commercial for the object of our choosing. can you guess?
it is of course not without irony, but yesterdays new does bring some sadness to it.
rip cosina voigtlander.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzUklL-DDrU
i'm a relatively new owner of an r3a, and i love everything about it. not even in the same universe as my previous fixed lens RF's.
on a somewhat unrelated note: last year we had a school assigmnet: we had to shoot a commercial for the object of our choosing. can you guess?
it is of course not without irony, but yesterdays new does bring some sadness to it.
rip cosina voigtlander.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzUklL-DDrU
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
I believe that already happened years ago.
maitani
Well-known
sad to hear, at some point I will buy back a Bessa IIIW among the best camera I've ever had.
and I hope they will release a digital rangefinder camera next year.
and I hope they will release a digital rangefinder camera next year.
jmilkins
Digited User
oh! A loss for sure IMHO.
Bessas - the blended whiskey one still enjoys because they lead to single malts.
CV introduced me to "RF" with a 15mm and an L, a T and 2 x R3As all of which I still have along with a stable of their wonderful glass. Yes, I eventually bought M, but without that accessible pathway I never would have.
Bessas - the blended whiskey one still enjoys because they lead to single malts.
CV introduced me to "RF" with a 15mm and an L, a T and 2 x R3As all of which I still have along with a stable of their wonderful glass. Yes, I eventually bought M, but without that accessible pathway I never would have.
photomoof
Fischli & Weiss Sculpture
Sorry to see this news. I don't know if Stephen will remember but I bought a Bessa and lens early on. Loved it enough that I bought some Nikon RF mount lenses from him also. Later added to my SLR collection by buying used from NYC camera dealers. I have always been impressed with the offerings.
IMO the Bessa, and Stephen's wonderful Cameraquest site, really brought rangefinders back into popularity.
IMO the Bessa, and Stephen's wonderful Cameraquest site, really brought rangefinders back into popularity.
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
For me that's true. I probably would not have tried a rangefinder camera if Cameraquest and RFF did not exist. And my first rangefinder was a Bessa R3a.